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T14 Woman submits better pics of herself.
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Date: February 24th, 2007 1:52 PM Author: 9823ue8w9rufsdjkfhkjsalhdnasjsadf (I make lists.) Shoutout to M.L. http://t14talent.googlepages.com/m.l.%2Cnyu%2708
See -- some people have a sense of humor. |
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Date: February 24th, 2007 1:53 PM Author: %\\ ask for more pics! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7660865) |
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Date: February 24th, 2007 1:57 PM Author: 9823ue8w9rufsdjkfhkjsalhdnasjsadf (I make lists.) no shit, Einstein. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7660884) |
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Date: February 24th, 2007 2:05 PM Author: ()+/ that is a much better picture. the two first pictures did not do her justice. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7660919) |
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Date: February 24th, 2007 2:11 PM Author: Cruella De Vil ("Do you watch Battlestar Galactica? No? Then you are an idiot.") SATAN BE GONE!!!
*throws holy water* |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 12:54 PM Author: Guy struggling with modernity You don't like competition? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7671634) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 8:43 PM Author: Cruella De Vil ("Do you watch Battlestar Galactica? No? Then you are an idiot.") haha "competition." Like in Little Miss Sunshine? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7674252) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 9:41 PM Author: Always Adding Value (PR man for intellectual charlatancy) Like that.
Except, for you, the ending is far more depressing. |
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Date: February 24th, 2007 2:16 PM Author: GOUGEAWAY haha seems like a fun personality :) take that complainer chicks! |
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Date: February 24th, 2007 2:40 PM Author: burntnorton (nephilim walking through the forest breaking limbs) she should win on general principle now (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7661094) |
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Date: February 24th, 2007 7:04 PM Author: fat michigander M.L.'s summer firm to M.L.: Ding fag! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7662306) |
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Date: February 24th, 2007 7:29 PM Author: Cruella De Vil ("Do you watch Battlestar Galactica? No? Then you are an idiot.") Somehow I highly doubt that. Pretty girls get away with everything. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7662430) |
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Date: February 25th, 2007 11:01 AM Author: bellacat Not with other girls. If I knew that a summer associate voluntarily submitted pics of herself to this website, I'd definitely question her maturity. It's not a dingworthy act by itself and if she otherwise did good work, I wouldn't recommend a no-offer, but she'd have to do better work than the rest of her peers for me to recommend an offer. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7665264) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 9:34 AM Author: 9823ue8w9rufsdjkfhkjsalhdnasjsadf (I make lists.) Too bad what women think doesn't really matter IRL. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7671048) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 11:51 AM Author: bellacat Tell that to the women on the recruiting committee. If a summer associate brought up XOXO, or submitted their own pics to this Hot Top 14 website, I'd question their maturity. You don't bring up XOXO at the office. As for the girl who submitted her own pics, that's a tacky and unprofessional act. She is submitting her pics to a site run by people who may be her peers, possibly people that she would be working for, with, or opposite (on a case or deal). It's just not a very professional thing to do. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7671405) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 12:10 PM Author: IronMonkey "As for the girl who submitted her own pics, that's a tacky and unprofessional act."
I disagree. |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 12:19 PM Author: bellacat Men and women obviously feel differently. From a woman's perspective, this person is voluntarily sexualizing herself in front of future professional colleagues. This, to me, shows that this girl doesn't care to present herself in a professional light in a forum that will undoubtedly be seen by her peers and colleagues. Bad judgment.
If this girl's work was fine and she otherwise showed good judgment and maturity I wouldn't recommend a no-offer, but it's definitely not a good way to potentially introduce yourself to future colleagues. |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 1:00 PM Author: IronMonkey "voluntarily sexualizing herself"
What does this mean? |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 1:09 PM Author: ... i don't think this is a "men and women obviously feel differently" issue. i'm female and don't see the problem here. she's clothed in the pictures, so who cares? if anything, it reflects positively on her as it shows she's not an uptight bitch. i'd prefer to work around people like her. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7671706) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 5:38 PM Author: bellacat If she did good work, I'd be happy to work with her, but otherwise I'd be afraid that she'd conduct herself too casually around clients or senior associates, especially when alcohol is involved, and represent the firm in a negative light.
EDIT: While she's clothed in the photos, the photos are presenting her in a rather sexualized way. I wouldn't feel comfortable having work colleagues see me in these kinds of outfits.
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Date: February 26th, 2007 5:49 PM Author: pauliewalnuts plus, why hire her when you could hire the girl (JF) who requested her picture be taken down... and also has a blog where she calls abortion "a moral good" and advocates for all sorts of immature and whacked-out looney liberal positions...
ya, i'd much rather hire the girl who cant handle a joke.
listen, that girl's pictures were ALREADY submitted to the site by someone else. realizing she'd be up there, she merely sent better ones of herself. that's all. and know what? people IRL respect that she can take a joke and can act normally when praised for being good looking.
compare that to tantrum-throwing agenda-pushing people like JF. i'd pick ML any day. |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 5:58 PM Author: bellacat Realizing she'd be up there, ML had 3 options: request that her pics be removed, keep silent or submit better pics of herself. I agree that I'd rather be around people who can take a joke, but she's taking this joke a bit too seriously in submitting better pictures. It's the "I'm hot, I'm proud, here are some better photos of me" narcissism that I'm not a fan of.
As for JF, it's also not a good idea to blog if your name's on it. I couldn't care less about blogging, but make sure you blog anonymously if your blog contains controversial or potentially offensive material. I consider her just as guilty of bad judgment if she doesn't blog anonymously or make an attempt to keep her blog identity a secret. |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 6:06 PM Author: MisterMeaner You are the kind of woman who makes it hard for other women in law firms. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7673321) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 6:14 PM Author: pauliewalnuts she presumes to tell other women what is 'professional' and assumes that a women who isn't HIGHLY PROTECTIVE of her sexuality and looks is 'unprofessional'.
the reason women have a hard time is because men hate women like bellacat but bellacat & other nonattractive women also bring down the attractive, femininely appealing women |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 6:24 PM Author: bellacat I know plenty of attractive female associates who have been hit on and asked out by male superiors. It even happened to me. I was working with a senior attorney who was giving me particularly positive feedback on my work as well as some good mentorship/advice. He asked me out for drinks one night after work and I figured it would be like a "night with the office boys" and a good opportunity for further mentorship/relationship building so I bit. He then proceeded to get obnoxiously drunk, ask me out numerous times (including via email when he got back to the office), and make lewd comments about my ass and my eyes. We no longer work together and to this day I don't know if his "mentorship" and positive feedback was because he genuinely liked my work or because he wanted to fuck me.
Other attractive female attorneys have had similar experiences with other male supervisors. Sometimes it's better to dress the part of the "ruthless professional" than of the "femininely appealing" woman to be taken seriously. |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 6:28 PM Author: pauliewalnuts i understand why YOU might not want to appear to be at all solicitous of male attention.
this doesnt explain why you'd begrudge other women from not being robotic "professionals" all the time. so what if they ocassionally play along with men or acknowledge their own attractiveness? maybe they're just ok and comfortable with it.
getting back to this contest--so what if this girl sent us some pictures. to be honest, the pics we have of her before just weren't very good. she improved her image by just working with us--she said she finds the contest "funny"--she never endorsed it.
point being, women second-guess other women all the time. you live like you want, but dont assume others are unprofessional if they dont want to be just like you |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 6:38 PM Author: Beach Body Brady Dood this chick thinks distance runners with no ass or tits is the body type that men prefer. It's highly likely the the only place a senior partner has ever hit on her is her imagination. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7673515) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 6:39 PM Author: bellacat the act of submitting "better" photos - i.e. photos which show her in sexualized poses - is questionable, especially since she knows that this "Girls of the Top 14" website will be viewed by many law students and lawyers.
It's her choice, though. I can't tell her not to submit sexier poses if she was unsatisfied with those posted, but she had better be prepared to expose herself to criticism and prejudgment by male and female colleagues alike if they see these pictures. |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 6:42 PM Author: pauliewalnuts re-read my post.
she sent us LESS SEXUAL pictures than what we had been sent.
at the same time, she also looks BETTER in the ones she sent.
moreover, apparently what she sent us was just from her own facebook profile anyway... something that 90% of law students have (except nontrads) and which almost always have pictures.
she did nothing that makes me think she has poor judgment. poor judgment is running around crying about this for hours at a time & asking other ppl to flame xoxo saying that only ugly doods would ever look at pictures of beautiful girls on the interwebs |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 6:46 PM Author: bellacat The only ones I've seen are the ones that are posted currently on the website linked in the original post. If she sent less sexual pictures of herself, good for her, since the ones already up are a bit on the suggestive side.
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Date: February 26th, 2007 6:48 PM Author: pauliewalnuts its sad, really, that the only times i've seen your moniker on xoxo are the times when you're knocking the t14 contest and girls who are OK with it as "unprofessional". you realize that women like you are the reason men are uncomfortable in many ways at law firms--and the reason that many women feel judged by other women.
when you do this, incidentally, it makes good, respectful men tentative but does NOTHING to deter powerful sr partners from still treating women a certain way. so youre just screwing your allies or at least ppl who would potentially support you.
good work. |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 6:55 PM Author: bellacat I'm not "knocking" the contest. I think it's relatively amusing as long as you respect the wishes of girls who want their photos removed. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging the existence of attractive female law students at top law schools, especially on this board. I'd even argue that it's a positive thing to show to certain male posters here that there are hot girls in top schools who will probably be working in Biglaw in a year or two. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7673607) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 6:29 PM Author: Noob Saibot who cares (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7673464) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 6:29 PM Author: MisterMeaner Part of a "night with the office boys" is not taking everything so goddamned seriously. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7673467) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 6:17 PM Author: Lord Psycholomort Correct. This ruthless professional rule is why men routinely feel awkward around female associates and female associates routinely work to ensure eachother's downfall. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7673385) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 6:45 PM Author: ... they seriously do? for some reason i assumed it was only secretaries who were bitchy and schemed against other women. fuck. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7673545) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 6:32 PM Author: Brined Turkey (An orgy of sexual lust) This seems very weird. It's not like she is flashing her tits at a firm committee meeting. What, lawyers aren't allowed to be sexual people? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7673478) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 6:34 PM Author: MisterMeaner Apparently not the girls. They must be "professional" (AKA uptight bitches) and guard their virtue to the death or some shit like that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7673489) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 6:36 PM Author: Brined Turkey (An orgy of sexual lust) I don't understand why some people seem to think that being "professional" is the equivalent of being in a goddamned monastery. I mean, certainly there are judgment calls involved, but posting a fully clothed, slightly suggestive picture on the internet seems so far on the acceptable side of that line that it's not even worth debating. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7673506) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 7:23 PM Author: bellacat It's not just "on the internet", but on a website that many law students, lawyers, and possibly professors may visit. You never know who sees these photos. Some colleagues may be more likely to form a certain viewpoint of a summer associate or junior attorney after seeing their photo, along with a message saying "funny site, I'll submit better photos when I can".
It's not at all as bad as jumping into the Hudson River, but it could attract negative attention from the firm conservatives as well as the firm pervs. |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 7:28 PM Author: MisterMeaner Perhaps she's better than all of us and really doesn't know anything about xoxo and/or how many people read it and thought it was some random site. I've met quite a law students who have never heard of this site. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7673820) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 7:30 PM Author: bellacat This could be true, although the phrase "top 14" is pretty XOXO-specific. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7673835) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 7:36 PM Author: MisterMeaner I didn't see her use that term. Just because it's on the contest site doesn't mean she understands it's xoxo related. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7673863) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 7:40 PM Author: bellacat Good point. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7673886) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 7:30 PM Author: Remember when I said I would kill you last? I lied How is it any worse than her putting the pictures up originally on Facebook?
The site itself isn't that offensive.
And lawyers and employers are going to be looking at Facebook. |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 7:33 PM Author: Nachocheese This is what I was thinking. This is the age of the digital camera lady, things are going to be a little different. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7673852) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 7:42 PM Author: bellacat I have never looked at Facebook/Flickr. A lot of the older attorneys (that might comprise a lot of the "pervs") might not even know what Facebook or Flickr is. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7673896) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 7:45 PM Author: Remember when I said I would kill you last? I lied If people would be savvy enough to find the t14 site, they would know about Facebook.
And the knowledge is spreading pretty rapidly. Employers (not every partner, but I would say most of the ones that do the hiring) will definitely be looking at it.
Flickr, probably not. |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 7:55 PM Author: bellacat Don't you still need a working .edu address to gain access to Facebook? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7673960) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 7:58 PM Author: Remember when I said I would kill you last? I lied No, not anymore. Now a lot of businesses are allowed in. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7673982) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 8:20 PM Author: Brined Turkey (An orgy of sexual lust) So what? I have dated law students and lawyers and have been friends with law students and lawyers and professors. Is it inappropriate when another lawyer sucks my dick or if I go out and get shitfaced drunk and sing off-key karaoke with other lawyers, by the virtue of the fact that they are lawyers? Again, I don't disagree that some judgment needs to be used w/r/t to how you present yourself to colleagues, but jesus, this is such a minor thing that it isn't even close to being the point where discretion enters the equation. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7674114) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 8:30 PM Author: bellacat If the Top 14 Girls website isn't widely circulated, then it probably isn't a big deal and you're right. If it ends up having the type of traffic of XOXO, all it takes is a few pervs or a few conservative-types for that girl's professional reputation to be tarnished (albeit mildly). There's still a double standard - socially, guys can get away with doing stuff that girls can't, and a lot of it revolves around how there's no real male equivalent for the word "slut" that's just as damaging to the male's reputation as "slut" is to a woman's. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7674167) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 8:32 PM Author: Brined Turkey (An orgy of sexual lust) "There are some old conservative douchebags in law firms who might unfairly judge an innocent action" seems to be a far cry from what you originally posted:
"If I knew that a summer associate voluntarily submitted pics of herself to this website, I'd definitely question her maturity. It's not a dingworthy act by itself and if she otherwise did good work, I wouldn't recommend a no-offer, but she'd have to do better work than the rest of her peers for me to recommend an offer." |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 9:00 PM Author: bellacat Not really. If there's the possibility of conservatives or pervs in a law firm who might negatively judge this girl's action, then it's immature and in bad judgment to undertake that action in the first place. I'm also not a fan of the girl's narcissism.
Maybe I'm just extremely cautious and "anal" about what pictures I allow of myself to be floating around on the internet; you never know who will see it and how it may hurt you. |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 9:03 PM Author: Brined Turkey (An orgy of sexual lust) "Not really. If there's the possibility of conservatives or pervs in a law firm who might negatively judge this girl's action, then it's immature and in bad judgment to undertake that action in the first place. I'm also not a fan of the girl's narcissism."
This is such total horseshit. There are people all over the place who judge for all kinds of shit. It's not bad judgment to decide that those people are overly sensitive, that you don't care if they judge you, and that you'd rather face any possible negative consequences from their judgment than walk around on eggshells and avoid doing every innocent thing under the sun.
I don't understand why your own overcaution even enters the equation. |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 9:11 PM Author: bellacat "There are people all over the place who judge for all kinds of shit. It's not bad judgment to decide that those people are overly sensitive, that you don't care if they judge you, and that you'd rather face any possible negative consequences from their judgment than walk around on eggshells and avoid doing every innocent thing under the sun."
If these people are in a position to review your work, or are a superior of yours or a colleague of yours, a little prudence can't hurt. Prudence doesn't entail "walking on eggshells"; it's merely recognizing that one's personal and professional life are sometimes best kept separate. I would love to be that person who doesn't care if overly sensitive/conservative/perverted people form unsavory opinions of me, but I'd rather go with the flow when it comes to my professional life than adopt an "I don't give a shit" attitude. |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 9:21 PM Author: Brined Turkey (An orgy of sexual lust) Prudence also doesn't entail wringing your hands about posting a fully-clothed picture of yourself. Moreover, you're missing the larger point -- it's possible that she values the ability to do minor things like this more than the extremely small risk that some hypothetical bizarre old coot partner at a firm she may hypothetically work at some day. Not everybody has the same priorities or same risk profile that you do.
Ultimately, you're not just arguing down the slippery slope, you're ignoring the existence of a slope. This is too far on the side of the "shouldn't matter" line that judgment just doesn't enter the equation. There may be some fundie christian partner at some hypothetical firm I may work at some day who would be offended by an article in a legal periodical about creationism in public schools. Wouldn't be enough of a risk to keep me from writing it. |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 9:24 PM Author: bellacat "There may be some fundie christian partner at some hypothetical firm I may work at some day who would be offended by an article in a legal periodical about creationism in public schools. Wouldn't be enough of a risk to keep me from writing it."
Completely different story. For a girl, the worst thing you can be known as is a slut. |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 9:42 PM Author: pauliewalnuts your points about the risk profile and the slippery slope are excellent. you've been pwning that one uptight woman the last few posts. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7674617) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 6:35 PM Author: Remember when I said I would kill you last? I lied Fun degrades women. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7673493) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 6:46 PM Author: pingvin "From a woman's perspective"
No, from yours. Please never speak for me. |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 7:57 PM Author: primefactor From "a woman's" perspective. i.e. hers, since she is a woman. Not from "the perspective of women." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7673977) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 9:23 PM Author: pingvin It better have been. Personally, I'm disgusted. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7674517) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 9:29 PM Author: bellacat Disgusted about what? A lot of women that I know think that what this girl did was rather immature, given the likelihood of lawyers and other law students frequenting the website. And a lot of other women think the entire idea of the contest is demeaning and offensive. Considering how a decent amount of women requested their pictures removed, this isn't exactly a fringe viewpoint.
It could be that the girl didn't know the estimated traffic of the site and that she's completely unfamiliar with XOXO, though. |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 9:33 PM Author: YES WE CAN well we've already established that you're an uptight bitch. plus the fact that you are having irl discussions about this stupid shit with other women pretty pathetic. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7674576) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 9:39 PM Author: pauliewalnuts i had an IRL discussion about this with my GF. i showed her the emails those not-even-that-hot girls wrote and she was like 'i'd find it flattering... and i dont think MC from UVA should even be in the contest bc shes not that attractive'
what *is* pathetic is when women sit around and get catty about each other. it brings them all down. what a bunch of stoopids. |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 9:40 PM Author: bellacat I'm not the only one I know who frequents this board. I do have female friends who frequent the board and/or know about the Top 14 Girls contest. The legal community can be pretty small.
As for the "uptight bitch" comment, it's safer to be known as an uptight bitch than as a slut. |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 9:43 PM Author: YES WE CAN are you implying that based on a picture of someone they're a slut? way to set the women's rights movement back (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7674624) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 9:47 PM Author: pauliewalnuts there aren't really any pictures on our t14 site that you'd look at and go "SLUT!" unless you're VERY out of touch or are jealous. most of the pictures are pretty tame.
and, as far as the girl who sent in pictures, hers aren't slutty at all.
men aren't going to assume she's a slut. they're going to admire. only women are jumping to slutty conclusions. if anything, seeing this girl and seeing she does to [any t14 school] i'd assume she's pretty hard to get as a result of being well educated AND attractive.
usually sluts are NOT the most attractive |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 9:50 PM Author: bellacat The pictures are par for the course in terms of silly, sexy party pics that pretty girls take when they're having fun, but people could take them the wrong way, especially the conservatives/pervs. It's about perception - I never said that she WAS a slut, but that those photos might create such an impression. The double standard still exists. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7674658) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 9:51 PM Author: YES WE CAN and you are helping to perpetuate it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7674673) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 9:55 PM Author: pauliewalnuts LOL that we came to same conclusion separately (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7674700) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 9:52 PM Author: pauliewalnuts the double standard is a result of people like YOU convincing men that they're supposed to be super sensitive about this. and, therefore, that they should avoid/not hire a girl like this, lest they put their firm at risk bc OMG OMG someone might do/say something mildly inappropriate at some future time. maybe we should just hire robots instead of men & women and avoid any of these problems
you're outnumbered, outpointed, outclassed. give up.
wtf are you wasting time replying to about a dozen ppl who have pwned you so far this thread? you must be ugly. |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 10:04 PM Author: bellacat I have no problem expressing unpopular opinions. I'm a bit of a social conservative, so I'm used to it.
I didn't mean to say that a man shouldn't hire a girl who was cute, fun, flirty, and laid-back. My issue is with the idea of a girl posting "better" photos of herself on this website despite knowing that it could be frequented by many of her colleagues.
I've also seen many competent females' reputations ruined for being fun and flirty with their superiors in a work setting. In some work environments this would be a non-issue, but in more conservative work environments, this could be near dingworthy if she behaved like this with work colleagues.
And yep, I'm ugly. |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 9:45 PM Author: pingvin A lot of people think what she did shows she's fun and laid back. The pictures she forwarded were not improper, from what I saw when I glanced at them.
You're just coming off as very uptight and upleasant, and the last thing I want is to be associated with that. If you had simply pointed out that some of the older, more conservative lawfirms may not like that, that would be different. I think you would have been correct in your assessment. |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 9:58 PM Author: bellacat I am pretty conservative myself, so forgive me for being of the contingency that "may not like that", and expressing such opinions. Would I want pictures of myself in similar attire and positions floating about on a lawblog? Not at all. If she's comfortable with it then that's her business but she has to be prepared for the conservatives not to be as comfortable. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7674719) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 10:00 PM Author: pauliewalnuts (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7674737) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 10:11 PM Author: bellacat From what I read, other women are taking issue with the Top 14 Girls contest, much more so than I am. Other women wanted their photos removed.
I have no doubt that she's attractive and secure, and handled the idea of the contest with much more humor and sense than some of the other women. If I were in her shoes I'd be flattered, and if I wasn't happy with the photos on the website I would kindly ask the website administrator to remove them. But volunteering "better" photos and having such a fact disclosed on the website is asking for trouble. |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 10:24 PM Author: Borislav stfu ugly. you're jealous of her. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7674916) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 10:42 PM Author: pingvin I'm pretty conservative as well. Though I have rarely heard a conservative use the phrase "woman's perspective," and "sexualized by men." To me, such phrases just scream feminist crap.
You judged her as a potential employee based on her relatively blameless actions here. I do not like that. And I don't blame other people for being pissed. What you did was not particualry fair and it certainly wasn't nice. |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 5:46 PM Author: pauliewalnuts i disagree with this. i'm not encouraging people to BRING UP xoxo on an interview. but the fact is, IRL lots of associates stop by xoxo and more than a few post. i can name several STB associates who read + post. im not comfortable enough where i am now to discuss this and im the youngest one in my practice area now, but i guarantee the people i work with wouldn't look down on things like this. we have no female partners in our group, though, so this wouldnt be the case everywhere (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7673211) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 5:53 PM Author: bellacat Some pretty inflammatory and offensive things are posted on this board. I worked with a summer associate last year who asked the entire room (of attorneys and summers) if they've ever posted on XOXO. I was shocked that he admitted that he posted. Some posters on here are decent but I couldn't help but wonder if some of the more misogynistic or otherwise offensive posts on this board were his. I understand that a lot of people post things for the shock value on here, but shock value comedy doesn't go over terribly well at my firm and XOXO posting isn't something that summers should voluntarily admit.
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Date: February 26th, 2007 6:08 PM Author: pauliewalnuts you'd rather have them post and not admit it, i guess. just like men aren't going to tell you they read maxim or playboy... but plenty of men look at that stuff. its called an outlet.
xoxo is an outlet also. |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 9:35 PM Author: Borislav stfu ugly (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7674586) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 9:34 AM Author: white girls with asian guys (aefl) Ugly girl is jealous! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7671049) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 12:20 PM Author: ,.,.,..........,., titcr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7671522) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 12:09 PM Author: IronMonkey "If I knew that a summer associate voluntarily submitted pics of herself to this website, I'd definitely question her maturity."
Why? |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 12:50 PM Author: nutella haha, so being petty and catty is mature. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7671623) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 5:40 PM Author: bellacat It has nothing to do with pettiness or cattiness. If she otherwise showed maturity and professionalism it wouldn't be a problem, but this isn't exactly a great way to gain the respect of your male and female colleagues. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7673166) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 10:00 PM Author: nutella of course it has everything to do with pettiness and cattiness.
you are projecting all sorts of negative qualities that go with submitting some pics to a silly internet beauty contest, including sluttiness, letting her guard down around clients if she has too much alcohol, etc. if anything, it is unprofessional (and sexist) to assume that a girl who does this sort of thing might have these other qualities.
people like you are the reason why male lawyers dont take females laswyers seriously and think of them as irrational, catty, and emotional beings. |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 10:02 PM Author: pauliewalnuts you're female too, right?
btw, every woman i know IRL who is confident would agree with this. its the jealous uglies/fundies who are doing this to women.
i wouldn't want to work with this woman who keeps going on and on and on about this... i'd hire the t14 girl instead. bc she acts much more rationally. she handled a situation really well |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 10:20 PM Author: bellacat I couldn't care less about how slutty a co-worker is, as long as it doesn't affect their performance or our client relations. However, I have seen female colleagues consume too much alcohol and act in an inappropriate way towards male clients, male recruits, male co-workers etc..., and it's pretty embarrassing. If I had 10 female summer associates standing in front of me, and I knew nothing about any of them except that this one submitted sexually suggestive pictures of herself to the Top 14 Girls website, I'd probably bet on her as the horse that would do something stupid when drunk, or have otherwise bad judgment.
Of course, she could easily prove me wrong by acting professionally and appropriately and if she did solid work I'd have no problem recommending an offer for her. But that doesn't mean I have to like her or consider her the kind of person I'd choose to associate with outside the office. |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 11:33 PM Author: nutella the point is that its immature, irrational, and catty to project qualities like sluttiness and bad judgment on someone based on submitting some pics to a harmless contest, esp. when someone else submitted photos in the first place.
dont worry, im sure she wouldnt want ot associate with you either. |
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Date: February 27th, 2007 10:40 AM Author: MisterMeaner "However, I have seen female colleagues consume too much alcohol and act in an inappropriate way towards male clients, male recruits, male co-workers etc..., and it's pretty embarrassing."
And earlier you were talking about how the men do this to women because the women project themselves in a certain way.
So...when the women drunkenly hit on the men it'sbecause the women are acting unprofessional and when the men drunkenly hit on the women it's ALSO because the women are acting unprofessional. Boy is that a double standard.
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Date: February 26th, 2007 6:06 PM Author: hogtorts This must be flame. You'd ding her because of these photos even if she were the second or third best summer in the office? Sounds like your personal crusade against attractive, playful women is compromising your good business sense. If I knew you in real life I'd recommend a non-promotion, unless of course you performed better than all the other associates. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7673313) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 6:18 PM Author: bellacat I wouldn't ding her because of the photos if she otherwise conducted herself competently. That would be stupid. But I wouldn't be completely inclined to recommend for her to get an offer if her work was mediocre and she demonstrated a lack of professionalism or maturity. I'd give the girl ample time to prove that she can conduct herself professionally but the fact that she posted these photos would give me a rather negative first impression of her that she'd have to overcome.
The photos she submitted of herself are also rather sexual-looking, even for "party pics". It's clear that this girl doesn't mind (and even enjoys) being seen as a sex object by her future colleagues in the legal profession. |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 6:21 PM Author: MisterMeaner Wow, are you 70 or something? That last little bit sounded like something my grandmother would say. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7673403) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 6:30 PM Author: pauliewalnuts the pictures we had before were: -more sexual -not as favorable for her (she looks better in the new ones)
her pics were going to be up regardless. she improved her image by getting less sexual pictures that she looks better in |
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Date: February 24th, 2007 7:31 PM Author: MisterMeaner If they are familiar with the t14 site, then they probably are somewhat familiar with XOXO and they know the girls did not voluntarily put their pictures up there. It's not Playboy for God's sake. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7662439) |
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Date: February 24th, 2007 7:32 PM Author: ...,,,,..,,.,.,.,. (http://sexualharassmenttalk.ytmnd.com/) No, but a girl who submitted naked pictures of herself for the contest would achieve deity status among lawyers and law students. She could get any job she wants. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7662447) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 8:49 PM Author: Cruella De Vil ("Do you watch Battlestar Galactica? No? Then you are an idiot.") Yeah, and THAT'S not a problem at all. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7674294) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 9:32 PM Author: Borislav i think that girl could marry someone better than a law partner. she could even date a surgeon. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7674571) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 9:51 PM Author: pauliewalnuts partners at V10 firms make ~$3Mil./yr.
show me all the surgeons who make $3Mil.
btw, i'm saying this as someone who aspires to be a surgeon one day. simply put, there arent tons of cool, attractive guys going to med school. when was the last time you were at a med school or teaching hospital? 50% of the men are nonwhite (maybe more), usually indian or asian. most are decidedly non-attractive.
at least with the law partner you're getting a well educated white dood who makes $3Mil. at a top firm.
be realistic--probably impossible given that you're some russian undergrad from staten island... LOL @ your TTT-ness |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 10:04 PM Author: Borislav lol. you a surgeon, i think you would be a rarity, you'd be a much better fit as a lawyer, most surgeons arent so insecure. partners at V10 work in NYC, right? Doctors make 500k+ in any rural area. They can also take long vacations(they make their own schedule), while as a partner at a law firm you cannot. beyond 500k any worthy woman doesnt care about your income, especially in low col areas. most lawyers are jews. you look like one too. doctors are >50% nonwhite only at certain schools. Many others are 70%+ white. many doctors are interested in sports. have you heard about a surgeon getting his hands amputated after climbing mt everest? many more serve in the military as officers, they fly jets and eat dinner with captains of aircraft carriers in the indian ocean. only a fag would compare a lawyer to a doctor. |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 10:13 PM Author: pauliewalnuts have fun at staten island community college....
how is living with your parents, btw? |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 10:23 PM Author: Borislav i think only jews from staten island would appreciate you. real girls like a real man. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7674910) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 10:28 PM Author: pauliewalnuts i'm not from staten island, although i drove through it once on my way to Crooklyn.
i'm also not a joo.
and i'm in @ a ttt post bac program that has 2 guaranteed med school linkages.
HTH |
Date: February 24th, 2007 2:32 PM Author: Noob Saibot for the girls that you no longer have pictures for--post a tubgirl in its place (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7661046) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 9:30 AM Author: 9823ue8w9rufsdjkfhkjsalhdnasjsadf (I make lists.) Don't you have all the pictures, partner? I mean, you were the one who did most of the heavy work. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7671041) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 6:08 PM Author: Noob Saibot you're confusing me for someone else. I haven't done anything for the site (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7673333) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 6:41 PM Author: 9823ue8w9rufsdjkfhkjsalhdnasjsadf (I make lists.) Shut up. Your other posts already prove that you are, in fact, the former DISH!
Just fess up. |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 6:42 PM Author: pauliewalnuts he's not DISH. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7673532) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 7:42 PM Author: Noob Saibot this is a community account, but I dont think he uses it (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7673893) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 6:16 PM Author: pauliewalnuts i dont understand this?
yes, someone else proposed working together, but early on i was the one who actually did the design for the site and solicited people to email in.
the real credit for making this happen goes to the people who have (so far) submitted 22 attractive girls, 1 Joe Pa, and 1 unidentified sugaryalien |
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Date: February 24th, 2007 4:39 PM Author: ...,,,,..,,.,.,.,. (http://sexualharassmenttalk.ytmnd.com/) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7661602) |
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Date: February 24th, 2007 4:41 PM Author: .....,.....,......,.,.,.,.,.,....,.,.,.,.,.,,,, (I want to do whatever common people do) JF has panache. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7661604) |
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Date: February 24th, 2007 4:49 PM Author: ...,,,,..,,.,.,.,. (http://sexualharassmenttalk.ytmnd.com/) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7661639) |
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Date: February 24th, 2007 4:53 PM Author: .....,.....,......,.,.,.,.,.,....,.,.,.,.,.,,,, (I want to do whatever common people do) The dress she's photographed in is so interesting. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7661654) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 5:42 PM Author: Noob Saibot a little controversial, but it's a blog (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7673178) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 6:25 PM Author: prestigium-317 (pensive) She's right, though, that a lot of the women who claim they'd "never" have an abortion are unaware of the circumstances under which many abortions occur.
When someone says "I'll never have an abortion", she usually means that if she gets pregnant from a consensual sexual encounter, and if there's no pre-natal evidence of birth defects, and if the pregnancy doesn't endanger her health or her life, she'll carry the pregnancy to term-- a reasonable stance, but not one that merits the word "never". |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 9:05 PM Author: Cruella De Vil ("Do you watch Battlestar Galactica? No? Then you are an idiot.") And me. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7674423) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 9:25 PM Author: YES WE CAN she reminds me of you. only smarter and better looking (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7674530) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 12:54 PM Author: Mr. Erin Andrews She has 4,000 pictures in her Flickr account. I'd guess more than half are of herself.
I don't think it's a secret anymore. |
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Date: February 24th, 2007 4:42 PM Author: Remember when I said I would kill you last? I lied She is obviously an American hero.
Congressional medal of honor? |
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Date: February 24th, 2007 4:44 PM Author: .....,.....,......,.,.,.,.,.,....,.,.,.,.,.,,,, (I want to do whatever common people do) Purple heart. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7661621) |
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Date: February 24th, 2007 6:16 PM Author: cubicle NOT HOT
tell her to send pics of that perfect 10 she's with in pic #2 though |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 12:07 PM Author: 9823ue8w9rufsdjkfhkjsalhdnasjsadf (I make lists.) That's JF, another contestant. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7671473) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 6:00 PM Author: chancemeeting (ret. - except radiohead threads) (slow it down; song is sacred) JF is one of the worst bloggers on the planet; she makes Amanda Marcotte seem respectable.
However, I tend to agree with her that this "contest" is pretty stupid and juvenile, and that we'd be better off without it. |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 6:13 PM Author: Beach Body Brady You're a coward. Sugaryslore is telling you to say that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7673363) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 6:19 PM Author: chancemeeting (ret. - except radiohead threads) (slow it down; song is sacred) No, she's not. And I'm not some sort of touchy-feely uber-liberal douchebag either. It just rubs me the wrong way for whatever reason.
Plus, one of the Chicago girls they posted no longer goes to school here. Someone must have sent her in to be an asshole. |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 6:23 PM Author: aznaznaznanzaznazn Link to said flickr account pls.
tyia. |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 6:31 PM Author: pauliewalnuts awesome moniker (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7673473) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 6:35 PM Author: aznaznaznanzaznazn ty ty.
Now the link. |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 6:36 PM Author: pauliewalnuts i'm not @ NYU. the person who posted the link a few days ago was from NYU.... just bump this every so often until they come along? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7673502) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 6:37 PM Author: chancemeeting (ret. - except radiohead threads) (slow it down; song is sacred) Go to her blog, you can find the account there in her "about" page. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7673510) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 7:13 PM Author: aznaznaznanzaznazn Excellent. ty.
Please post this picture:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jillnic83/214303338/in/set-72157594240095533/ |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 7:17 PM Author: aznaznaznanzaznazn Also this one, but really zoom up on the CGWBT in the background. Let's say she goes to Duke.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jillnic83/176143252/in/set-72157594179051900/ |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 9:33 PM Author: KnobGobbler2 http://tinyurl.com/2hng86 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7674572) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 9:39 PM Author: Remember when I said I would kill you last? I lied Don't click on the link, dooders. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7674600) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 9:40 PM Author: KnobGobbler2 Don't fucking try to run me off. There's nothing wrong with that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7674605) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 9:45 PM Author: Remember when I said I would kill you last? I lied At least be creative about it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7674631) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 11:22 PM Author: we (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7675461) |
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Date: February 26th, 2007 11:26 PM Author: pauliewalnuts her emails to us were also just awful.
the thing about that girl, though, that strikes me the MOST is her rather interesting (to say the least) selection of boyfriends... |
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Date: February 27th, 2007 12:30 AM Author: Noob Saibot I'm sure she's a nice person, and she doesn't deserve all the meanness directed her way (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7676025) |
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Date: February 27th, 2007 9:59 AM Author: Chicken voting for Colonel Sanders I don't see why everyone's being so hard on bellacat.
I think she's being a little extreme in saying she'd assume the girl is a slut, can't handle her liquor well, will be unprofessional, etc. I wouldn't assume negative things like that about a girl because she submitted pics to this site.
It doesn't seem like a particularly prudent thing to do though. Xoxo is seen as a really sketchy site, and those guys who run this contest might be in all sorts of trouble for posting pics of girls there against there will. I wouldn't want to cooperate with guys who run a site that stole girls' pics and refused to take them down when asked. Considering how most of the girls involved seem to feel about the contest, participating in it willingly might draw negative reactions from her peers.
It just seems like an odd thing to do - sending in additional pics, as though to make herself competitive in the contest. I don't really think badly of her for it, but it seems like something that most girls wouldn't want to have advertised about them. |
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Date: February 27th, 2007 10:42 AM Author: MisterMeaner Date: February 26th, 2007 7:28 PM Author: Product of your environment
Perhaps she's better than all of us and really doesn't know anything about xoxo and/or how many people read it and thought it was some random site. I've met quite a law students who have never heard of this site.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#7673820)
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Date: February 27th, 2007 2:20 PM Author: pauliewalnuts Subject: the girls are split 50-50... about half of the comments are pro- and half are anti- (from the girls themselves)
the ones who think its OK are cooler, IMO |
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Date: July 15th, 2008 4:00 PM Author: Bristol Palin\'s gaping vag (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=585433&forum_id=2#9975655) |