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NYC Teaching Fellows
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Date: May 9th, 2008 7:02 PM Author: Sooty diverse yarmulke I'm in the midst of dropping my program at NYU and I'd like to do something interesting with my time rather than getting a meaningless office job. I've been looking into the NYC Teaching Fellows, and it sounds excellent. Yes, you get a subsidized MA in Ed from a TTT, but it's also only $6k. It sounds rewarding in every aspect, not just monetarily. Has anyone had any experience with this program? I've heard it's less competitive than Teach for America but is still well respected. I'd otherwise apply to TFA, but I want to stay in NYC. Any outside info would be appreciated. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=811586&forum_id=3#9761049) |
Date: May 10th, 2008 3:31 AM Author: Soggy Adventurous Center Fanboi teaching through these types of programs has gotten so popular lately im pretty sure nyctf is just as selective as tfa (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=811586&forum_id=3#9762925) |
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Date: May 11th, 2008 12:41 PM Author: Sooty diverse yarmulke The odd thing is that people often use NYCTF as a backup when they get rejected from TFA. However, according to numerous sources, only around 18% of applicants are actually granted admission into NYCTF. The big question is, is the quality of the typical student applying lower? I graduated from a decent state school with a 3.7 and I'm at NYU now. I'm wondering if the program is competitive on top of being selective, if that makes sense. I think I stand an ok chance at gaining entry, but it's always hard to tell with these sorts of programs. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=811586&forum_id=3#9766803) |
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Date: May 14th, 2008 11:50 PM Author: Cream base it's non-competitive. there are people in ed programs that have 2,7's. IN UG ED. bear in mind, they're applying for these programs too.
i don't know how the application process works because i never applied. neither do most people in these programs. they get a relative or friend who is a principal to make a phone call for someone with a gpa that's >3.5
also, for the love of god, read what i wrote below. |
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Date: May 18th, 2008 2:31 PM Author: Vermilion Principal's Office Cuck It's not really. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=811586&forum_id=3#9799458) |
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Date: May 11th, 2008 6:36 PM Author: dun sexy circlehead I've had several friends start the Teaching Fellows program. They've all dropped out by the end of the first year. The three ex-fellows I know started the program because they either didn't know what else they wanted to do with their lives or they liked the idea of a subsidized grad degree but ended up not being able to handle the realities of teaching in the public schools here. Maybe the results are different for people who know they want to be teachers? If that makes sense.
Anyway, here are a couple random comment threads from the NYC livejournal community, saying a lot of the same things my friends said about no support, terrible schools, etc etc.
http://community.livejournal.com/newyorkers/2795544.html http://community.livejournal.com/newyorkers/1126789.html http://community.livejournal.com/newyorkers/3939832.html http://thenewestnewyorker.blogspot.com/2007/05/why-i-quit-nyc-teaching-fellows.html |
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Date: May 18th, 2008 2:34 PM Author: Vermilion Principal's Office Cuck Teaching in any urban arena is not for you if you are not, stubborn, have good people skills, willing to get in people's faces, and have a good sense of humor. Most importantly, you have to be adept at making changes on the fly and wielding less overt forms of people/crowd control continuously. Expect the hardest time of your life as everything else you have done has not prepared you for this (teaching in urban). You will be on your own from day one. Like a challenge? Here it is.
Most of the initial challenge is culture shock.
I highly recc it as a personal improvement program for a couple of years. Besides, sometimes you need to totally change your bearings and go into a situation that is outside your comfort zone.Teaching fellows do seem to rise to the top of the pecking order if they subsequently apply to the aspiring principals program.
The vast majority of education programs in most places will teach you things of little worth in the classroom.
If you are interested in some of the reform attempts in teaching/leadership go to the wallace foundation and read about it there.
That said, you can be hired in many urban schools (at least in NJ) as an alternate route depending on what your background is without going through these programs. That may have changed , check to see if this is still the case as things are in constant flux.If you are an english/social studies teacher good luck. Same with the elementary education.
If you want to try an alternate program here in NJ try the Prudential Teaching fellows from Montclair university.
The people who seem to adjust better in my experience are people who have had some work experience already and are more accustomed to dealing with a no excuses situation to performance. Please not that all the above is NJ-specific experinces and not Teaching Fellows. |
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Date: May 14th, 2008 11:13 AM Author: Sooty diverse yarmulke bump... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=811586&forum_id=3#9782559) |
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Date: May 14th, 2008 11:34 PM Author: Cream base Avoid it like the fucking plague. Fwiw, it's not selective. It's NOT TFA at all. They'll take anyone with a pulse that doesn't exhibit sign of mental retardation (which in Ed is a lot).
I dropped out years ago after the people who were supposed to be mentoring me stopped returning calls 2 weeks into it. It turned out one of them moved to Kansas and forgot to mention it. Oh, yeah and if you're a minority, don't bother, the program doesn't have any of those, despite incessant CUNY social justice rants or the ad campaign. The whole program is 22 yo jewish girls whose fathers are AP's and principals. NYCTF sucks.
I'm paying for my M.Ed degree now after I'd worked at a Fortune 500 for a few years. One of my friends stuck with it, and he had to delay getting certified because as soon as he did, he would've gotten transferred to a Title I (certification would've made him "highly qualified", and thus, he would've had to go to a high impact position because he was part of NYCTF).
The whole system is really fucked up. Long story short, if you can afford it, pay for the M.Ed, otherwise you will be working in a shithole, if you're working at all and you may actually wind up with a reduced pay grade because you'll have to dodge getting full certification (and a pay raise) or wind up reassigned.
NYCTF has astronomical turnover for a couple of reasons. Not all of them are the program's fault (i.e. for lots of people it's their first "Real job" which has high turnover anyway) but a lot are.
I have a bunch of journal articles about those programs and retention problems from the Ed journals about it if you want me to post links.
They'll put you in some Title I (high free lunch = poor). Peace of mind is not worth the $6400 you save in the amount of CUNY tuition required to get inital certification (and a total of 30 credits).
I'm about 3/4 through an Ed masters at CUNY.
just pay for your degree from one of the CUNY's. no one gives a shit where you get your Ed degree from. It's an Ed degree. also, half the profs teach at CUNY and columbia anyway (there's a lot of overlap) so in terms of actual education, it borders on irrelevant
Let me know what you want to know and I'll tell you. I know a lot about Ed programs.
Subject area? Grade level? Gender? Race? |
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Date: May 15th, 2008 12:21 AM Author: Sooty diverse yarmulke Thanks for your insight. I'm in the middle of tentatively dropping my MA program at NYU, and I'm looking for something fulfilling to do with myself. I graduated from undergrad a year early and rushed into a useless MA program for which now I have no intention of completing (luckily I was only a handful of credits into the program). NYCTF's website made the program out to be quite appealing, particularly with the subsidized degree and starting salary. I majored in anthro undergrad and it's been difficult finding real jobs beyond my legal secretary temping position. TFA seems more convenient for someone like me. This is mostly because I'm not sure if I'll enjoy teaching, whereas in NYCTF, your plans are basically set in stone with the subsidized M.Ed. TFA just seems like way too much of a hassle to get into. Are there any other programs that you'd suggest for someone looking to possibly explore teaching? I don't want to blindly sign myself up for a complete disaster, and I certainly don't want to drop another graduate degree program. Any further help would be appreciated. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=811586&forum_id=3#9786028) |
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Date: May 15th, 2008 11:12 AM Author: Cream base I'm going to be brutally honest - teaching has incredibly high turnover in the first 3 years, but rather low past that. Settling in is tough. TFA and NYCTF both have high turnover for most of the same reasons. They basically just throw you into a classroom with no methods (how to teach something) classes and no experience. IMO, NYCTF is worse because there's no associated "prestige" with fortune 500 employers if you decide to leave teaching.
Also, job prospects for a social studies teacher aren't great. I still think it's a good field (I'm ELA looking at Special Ed), but that's me.
For a lot of people it's their first job and they have unrealistic expectations, they're put in a bad school, and they have little administrative support and no supervisory experience (bear in mind - you are supervising 30 kids). In HS, many new teachers are only 4 years older than some of the kids! Some new, younger teachers have difficulty demanding respect. I'm older, a pretty big guy, and cranky, so I don't seem to have that problem.
Have you thought about working for a bit? Don't get a master's just to get a master's. If you want to be a teacher, that's one thing. If you're unsure, forget programs - sub while taking an Ed class or 2 while you save up some bucks. "Dropping" out of an Ed program isn't a big deal if it doesn't work out. Most people go part time. I'll post the sub certification link later or you can google it.
Get your feet wet a little. Be sure to take a methods or classroom management class for your first class or two. Those are the only ones that relate to teaching and they relate to it, a lot. The rest are bullshit.
Fwiw, with anthro, you're probably going to have to take some UG courses to make up social studies/history classes. Go to CUNY admissions and ask how many classes you have to make up, if any. You'll never find out over the phone, so it's pointless to call.
I have 2 finals today, but I'll post some more later. Let me know if you have any other questions.
Have ERIC access? further reading - try guarino's teacher recruiting and retention from the Review of Educational Research, 2006, Vol 76, #2. Provides a good overview of problems. Don't get me wrong, I think teaching is a great and rewarding profession, but I think it's important to get both sides.
If you don't have ERIC, i'll give you my e-mail later and send you a few articles.
"Career changers find teaching to be rewarding and they stick with it. Seven out of ten Fellows who started in 2003 taught for three or more years."
http://www.nyctf.org/whocanbe/career_change.html
Off of the NYCTF website. 30% attrition before 3 years for a program that pays for a masters degree. According to them. Heads up - no one fails ED classes, so no one flunks out of the program. See a problem, here?
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Date: May 15th, 2008 12:55 PM Author: Sooty diverse yarmulke My problem is... I don't know where to work. Anthro is so broad, that I feel like I could do things as mundane as consulting and marketing to more engaging things, like teaching, research, or nonprofits. I've tried the career office, I've tried my advisors, no luck. I apply to everything. I just figured teaching would be the most accessible. What about alternative certification/route? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=811586&forum_id=3#9788057) |
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Date: May 15th, 2008 1:09 PM Author: Cream base it's a bad economy to get out of school.
that isn't how folks get jobs. beg your friends, relatives, etc. don't worry about the degree being connected to your job. it never is, unless you got a business degree in college.
personally i think all alt cert routes suck. nasty little secret - they don't like hiring people with alt cert unless they have teaching experience already. there's all sorts of weird things going on with them. lots of loopholes. NCLB has led to less alt cert routes, anyways because most alt cert teachers don't count as "highly qualified" under the law.
TFA isn't bad if you can get it, but other than that, my opinion is *meh*. It can get you teaching faster, but you'll probably have to hustle more to find a job. I know an alt cert guy who couldn't find a job until he got his masters, anyway.
If you don't know people in Ed, you're not getting a job either, you're getting a degree. Ed grad programs don't have placement offices. |
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Date: May 15th, 2008 2:52 PM Author: Sooty diverse yarmulke Despite not having a formal background in Ed, I do have extensive connections to education positions. Half of my family is somewhere in the upper rungs of education, so nepotism would of course play a key role in me getting a teaching position. I realize the economy is to blame for some of my troubles in terms of the job hunt, but I'm wondering if there are other programs that I'm otherwise missing out on. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=811586&forum_id=3#9788730) |
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Date: May 15th, 2008 3:29 PM Author: Cream base i'll give you my AIM or e-mail when i get back from finals. it'll be easier to explain via that.
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Date: May 16th, 2008 3:04 PM Author: Cream base (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=811586&forum_id=3#9793064) |
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Date: May 18th, 2008 2:49 PM Author: Vermilion Principal's Office Cuck As you say, it's teaching in general with a high proportion of fuckups.. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=811586&forum_id=3#9799493) |
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Date: May 19th, 2008 6:44 PM Author: Deep floppy spot lol NC has a teaching fellows program, it's like ROTC for teachers, except less selective. they give dumb bimbos scholarships to state schools, and in return said bimbos promise to teach for X years (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=811586&forum_id=3#9805841) |
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Date: May 19th, 2008 9:36 PM Author: Cream base this is different.
this is an alternate certification program post-graduation. |
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Date: May 27th, 2008 4:16 PM Author: chest-beating bateful university Subject: NYCTF Well, I guess I'll just have to see for myself how it is. I'm a young black male that got accepted to teach elementary education. I never applied to TFA so I cannot really compare them, I do agree that if you come prepared and seem at least of average intelligence you could probably get in. For me it was a last resort being a marketing major and not being able to find a job for 9 months.
I'm excited to be in this program because I had always though about teaching but never persued it. I'll post and let you all know how good/bad the program is. Oh yea, I'll be teaching in the South Bronx. I know that will be LOADS of fun. :o/ |
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Date: May 27th, 2008 6:56 PM Author: Sooty diverse yarmulke I've been a similar situation. It seems like a promising program, but I can't help but take heed to the mixed reviews. One of my biggest worries (as a small white girl) is getting placed in a school that'll eat me alive. I'd say as a young educated black male, you have a slight advantage over me in terms of the students' reception. Good luck! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=811586&forum_id=3#9833852) |
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Date: May 27th, 2008 10:21 PM Author: Vermilion Principal's Office Cuck It can certainly be done, but only you can tell if you have the intestinal fortitude. One thing is for sure, you will come out of it a much better person for having learned how to deal with situations and testing your abilities and limits.
Although people deal with things differently, I'd say you have to have a bit of a stubborn streak in you. You must realize you are trying to undo, or having the students unlearn how they responded to ineffectual, disinterested teachers. They don't really believe what you say -- you have to make them realize you mean it through yor actions. |
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Date: June 4th, 2008 6:45 PM Author: Sooty diverse yarmulke Started my application for the midyear NYCTF. I'm pretty much done with it actually, just proofreading my essays and perfecting my resume. Who knows what I'm getting myself into... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=811586&forum_id=3#9857927) |
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Date: June 4th, 2008 11:23 PM Author: Vermilion Principal's Office Cuck I'd just like to say starting in mid-year is the worst case scenario. BUT, you will certainly have to hit the ground running anyway in either case if you are to survive.. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=811586&forum_id=3#9858705) |
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Date: June 5th, 2008 3:46 PM Author: Sooty diverse yarmulke Is midyear difficult because there are less positions available? Should I apply at another time? If there's a way to defer, maybe I could do that... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=811586&forum_id=3#9861130) |
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Date: June 5th, 2008 9:30 PM Author: Vermilion Principal's Office Cuck I'd say it's more difficult because you are dropped into a classroom that is probably in chaos through a succession of substitutes or teachers that just left.
Look up The Great Expectations School by Dan Brown for some NYC teaching fellows ruminations. |
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Date: June 5th, 2008 11:34 PM Author: Cream base TITCR
midyear at a title I school sets you up for failure. sorry, but that's reality.
you know how hard it is to maintain discipline when the kids have ran through 3-4 other teachers that year i.e. midyear replacements, long term subs, etc? Also, expect to find that they haven't taught any part of the curriculum that the kids need to know by the end of the year. |
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Date: May 27th, 2008 10:19 PM Author: Vermilion Principal's Office Cuck Just keep in mind:
Be consistent and tough. Crack one inch, one time and you'll be on the slippery slope. |
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Date: May 29th, 2008 3:42 PM Author: Cream base *high five*
fwiw, feel free to e-mail me if you ever have questions about the certification process or whatever. you seem like a decent guy.
no one ever told me shit, so I had to find out a lot of stuff myself, which sucked.
e-mail address above. just post on the thread if you e-mail. i don't check that one often.
good luck |
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Date: July 4th, 2008 10:14 AM Author: Sooty diverse yarmulke Looks like I have an interview set up in 2 weeks. I wonder if this is a mistake. The only subject I'm qualified to teach (because of my undergrad degree) is special education. I've heard that special ed is the worst because many of the kids aren't physically or mentally disabled, they just have terrible attitudes. Any thoughts? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=811586&forum_id=3#9944034) |
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Date: July 4th, 2008 11:16 AM Author: Vermilion Principal's Office Cuck What you say is true. However, if you have firm rules, applied consistently and are flexible in the classroom with material and teaching methods you should do ok. Of course it will be difficult. It will make you a better person, imo. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=811586&forum_id=3#9944085) |
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Date: July 4th, 2008 11:28 AM Author: Cream base "The only subject I'm qualified to teach (because of my undergrad degree) is special education. I've heard that special ed is the worst because many of the kids aren't physically or mentally disabled"
I teach special needs adults. If you're not already familiar with persons with special needs, you're pretty much fucked if you get a midyear class in a urban area and have no experience.
There's plenty of students with LD's, mental and emotional handicaps, but there's also the bullshit ADHD AA kids -basically AA kids with behavior problems the bony jewish girls can't deal with. Since being a dick has been psychologized, technically they're not "just acting out", they're disabled.
Special Ed tracking is racist as shit, so in a high functioning special ed class expect mostly AA and hispanic with behavior problems (ADHD,ODD/Conduct Disorders) ELL's (English Language Learners) and persons with LD's like Dyslexia.
Snapshot, yesterday I had to pull a 350lb AA guy off of a 150 lb white guy with pica. Thankfully, he was too busy eating a book to retaliate.
I love it, but I'm kind of crazy, don't get mad easily, and have been around people with disabilities my whole life. Also, I have the patience of a saint.
Liberally, I give you 3 months. See if you can get mainstream ed. |
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Date: July 4th, 2008 4:28 PM Author: Sooty diverse yarmulke Funny you mention bony... My one huge concern was being a 5'2 100 lb white female. I could teach mainstream ed, but in order to teach a subject at the secondary level, you need a BA in that particular subject. I have a degree in anthro, so that's not much of a help. Mainstream elementary ed positions are apparently impossible to get in NYC, as special ed, secondary math/science, and spanish are the highest in demand. I'd prefer elementary special ed because I'd be able to control the kids slightly better. In most cases, I could protect myself from a wiry 4th grader, but 8th or 9th grade... not so much. I'm also patient, and have a good sense of humor about things. I have a bitchy side, so that might help in getting the students to sit down, shut up, and do their work. Apparently, there's usually a teacher's aide in the special classes, so that would also be a big help. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=811586&forum_id=3#9944917) |
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Date: July 4th, 2008 4:45 PM Author: Cream base "but in order to teach a subject at the secondary level, you need a BA in that particular subject."
You ABSOLUTELY don't. I don't know who's feeding you this shit, but they're wrong. You may have to make up some credits inthat area though. You can generally do it while you're teaching.
"I could protect myself from a wiry 4th grader"
LOL, you know some of the "kids" are like 15 or 16 and in 4-8th grade, right?
"I have a bitchy side, so that might help in getting the students to sit down, shut up, and do their work."
If anything, that will hurt you. Yell at someone who's mentally disabled or crazy if you'd like to test that theory. See what happens. I wouldn't be worried about your safety, but you'll probably quit. Read B.F. Skinner's "Technology of Teaching" some time.
"Apparently, there's usually a teacher's aide in the special classes"
Those are paras, not TA's. If a kid has one para, he should generally have at least 2. Most times, they're worthless.
If you have anthro see if you can get into social studies or something. You do NOT want a midyear special ed class. I'm not saying this to sound negative or scary, it's just facts. |
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Date: July 4th, 2008 6:21 PM Author: Sooty diverse yarmulke In the NYC Teaching Fellows, you have to have over 16 credits in Math/Science to teach it. I don't have that. When I was accepted through to the second round, I was told that I could only sign up for special ed. I'm not going to get a job teaching anything else with a BA in anthro and no additional credits. Social studies jobs are extremely hard to come by and there are seldom vacancies, particularly midyear. I'd like to teach mainstream elem ed or middle school english, but those are always filled with hundreds in queue. It's apparently easier to get a position through the NYCTF, so that's how I'm going about it. It seems like there's a lot of long lines and red tape in NYC public schools, and I don't know where to turn for additional information. If I could obtain a decent teaching position in the area of my choice without the Teaching Fellows, I'd consider it, but I haven't found much more useful information or advice. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=811586&forum_id=3#9945185) |
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Date: July 4th, 2008 6:40 PM Author: Cream base "When I was accepted through to the second round, I was told that I could only sign up for special ed."
You were told wrong.
"I'd like to teach mainstream elem ed or middle school english, but those are always filled with hundreds in queue."
Not really.
You generally need to sub first, then get hired for a replacement gig. You can work out of certification area. You really do not want to be thrown into a midyear Special Ed class.
"It's apparently easier to get a position through the NYCTF"
The reality = not so much. |
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Date: July 4th, 2008 10:25 PM Author: Vermilion Principal's Office Cuck While what you say is true, you should really not impose your experience on her. You bailed. Many don't and the only way she will find out if she has what it takes is when she's there. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=811586&forum_id=3#9945594) |
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Date: July 4th, 2008 10:50 PM Author: Cream base I didn't bail. I never started. I got deregistered a few years ago when my NYCTF mentor decided to take a fucking trip to Kansas without mentioning it to me. She "forgot" to submit my paperwork. There's a whole lot of forgetting going on with them. They tell you things that are flat out wrong constantly.
I'm getting my Master's in Ed now. It's a much more pleasant experience than the NYCTF ppl I know are getting. They're getting mercilessly fucked because they wanted to save 10k.
I know how the NYC Board of Ed system works. I'm working in it and so are many of my classmates. I also cite empirical literature below. I also cite their OWN website which lists 30% attrition. What are you citing? Where do you work? |
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Date: July 4th, 2008 11:07 PM Author: Vermilion Principal's Office Cuck nj big city urban. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=811586&forum_id=3#9945714) |
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Date: July 4th, 2008 11:08 PM Author: Cream base NJ =/= NY.
HTH |
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Date: July 4th, 2008 11:10 PM Author: Vermilion Principal's Office Cuck wow, you might be a genius. NY is also not NJ in that NJ has tried very little of the reforms that NYC has been trying. hth (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=811586&forum_id=3#9945723) |
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Date: July 4th, 2008 11:20 PM Author: Cream base Have you even read the Nation's Report Card? NJ outranks NY in every conceivable area of education.
Do you keep up with your field, at all? |
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Date: July 4th, 2008 11:25 PM Author: Vermilion Principal's Office Cuck Hey clown... Stop being so full of yourself. Think a little bit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=811586&forum_id=3#9945768) |
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Date: July 4th, 2008 11:36 PM Author: Cream base You don't work in NYC. You don't read the current literature in Education.
Conclusion - when it comes to NYC, specifically - or the bigger ed picture, in general, you don't really know what you're talking about.
Listen, I'm sure you know a lot about NJ urban schools, esp where you teach (and I'm not discounting the difficulty of that task), but NJ isn't NY. |
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Date: July 4th, 2008 11:53 PM Author: Vermilion Principal's Office Cuck So you work in nyc now before you've finished your MA that you're paying for?
I think you think you know what you're talking about -- but it is merely a variation of prestige-whoring that goes on on this site all the time. The job is difficult, no doubt. But it is no more difficult in any appreciable way. |
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Date: July 6th, 2008 11:58 AM Author: Sooty diverse yarmulke "When I was accepted through to the second round, I was told that I could only sign up for special ed."
//You were told wrong. //
The main areas in demand are special ed, Spanish, math, and science. I COULD look at other areas, but the chances of getting a position are slim to none.
//You generally need to sub first, then get hired for a replacement gig. You can work out of certification area. You really do not want to be thrown into a midyear Special Ed class. //
How do I go about doing that? Are there any specific things needed to sub?
"It's apparently easier to get a position through the NYCTF"
.//The reality = not so much.//
Then what's the easiest way to get into the NYCDOE? It seems very difficult to navigate through the system, particularly without any support or representation. Any additional advice would be appreciated.
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Date: July 4th, 2008 10:33 PM Author: Vermilion Principal's Office Cuck In my 3+ years teaching, nobody I know of in my school (not too savory by any standards) bailed. This includes mid-year sped and normal ed students. Granted, this is mostly alternative route candidates and not kids straight out of school. The main difference is alt route people with work experience have more experience to draw from and have proven themselves under tough (totally different though) situations before. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=811586&forum_id=3#9945605) |
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Date: July 4th, 2008 10:59 PM Author: Cream base "alt route people with work experience have more experience to draw from"
this is true. older candidates tend to stay in jobs longer. OP does not appear to be older.
in NYC urban schools (which is where all the NYCTF folks are going) turnover is very high. alt route teacher turnover is higher, because they generally have no training and are right out of school. younger teachers burn out fast, esp in special ed, esp in mid-year placements.
But don't take my word for it.
see:
1. Teacher Turnover and Shortages, Ingersoll, American Educational Research Journal Fall 2001 Vol 38 No 3 p499-534
2. Teacher Recruitment and Retention: A Review of the Recent Empirical Literature, Review of Educational Research, Summer 2006, Vol 76, No 2, p173-208
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Date: July 4th, 2008 11:08 PM Author: Vermilion Principal's Office Cuck the alt route people are coming in via college district partnerships, so they have training. Either way, the training is shit and of little use. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=811586&forum_id=3#9945717) |
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Date: July 4th, 2008 11:19 PM Author: Cream base NYCTF is very different than that. It's really only done through one college (CUNY) and you could wind up in a lot of different places.
They literally put you in a school before you've taken a single methods class, and often summer school before any classes or support.
NY =/= NJ
Just so you know, NJ school system is vastly superior to NY's and is ranked ahead of it in every conceivable study in every conceivable way. |
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Date: July 4th, 2008 11:24 PM Author: Vermilion Principal's Office Cuck Again, classes are of little worth I've seen all types of college and in-service traning and consultants etc. It';s all useless in the classroom.
Summer school is a big plus before you start school and is to be applauded.
Let's just keep this to urban, so NJ urban is not superior in any way to NYC. For instance, A school of 3,000 students had close to 250k cuts in a year, this is the fun we deal with. |
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Date: July 4th, 2008 11:34 PM Author: Cream base Just read one of the things I linked to. Do you have ERIC access or do you want me to post it? Op will probably find them relevant.
Urban schools are hard places to teach at, no matter where they are with high turnover across the board.
NYC is one of the worst places to teach. Salary sucks relative to NJ and CT and there are monumental structural problems in the school system. NEAP and a variety of other sources all place it below NJ on every measurable assessment. This isn't subjective, nor is it intended to be a pissing contest. You should be proud NJ schools are producing more accomplished learners.
Back to what we were talking about before, NYC also requires a Masters degree after 5 years. The way teachers are often hired (and alternate cert) differs markedly from NJ as well. I'd be happy to go into the details.
The profession of teaching varies WIDELY from state to state. What you're saying may be true at the school where you work (though it's unlikely in your state's larger population according to contemporary research). However, it's not true in NYC, Ny or the country as a whole at any of the schools I've seen or any research I've read. |
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Date: July 4th, 2008 11:56 PM Author: Vermilion Principal's Office Cuck NJ is certainly not producing anything of any value from urban schools. Report cards or whatever data coming from urban districts are bogus, I read them before I started and checked back afterwards and it isn't even close to reality. The reality is it's a total mess. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=811586&forum_id=3#9945834) |
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Date: July 6th, 2008 9:15 PM Author: Sooty diverse yarmulke If I get certified in NJ, can I teach in NYC? I'm from NJ, so I'm thinking NJ certification might be cheaper. How does reciprocity work? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=811586&forum_id=3#9950024) |
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Date: July 11th, 2008 5:33 PM Author: Vermilion Principal's Office Cuck Try the http://www.teachers.net chatboards. I'm sure someone on the NJ or NY board can answer this definitively. They're usually pretty helpful over there.
On a non-related note, there is a program at Montclair university in NJ called the Prudential Teaching scholars. It's for math and science people, but maybe you might want to go to an info session, you never know what you might be able to find out.. |
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Date: August 1st, 2008 7:16 PM Author: Cream base As far as I know, no. It doesn't work like that, mostly because of NYC's Master's requirement and test differences (NYC has radically different cert requirements from most states which only require a bachelor's and the PRAXIS).
States with reciprocity generally require that you've taught for 3-5 years especially after the No Child Left Behind (NCLB) Legislation. They have a bunch of stuff about "highly qualified" that necessitates experience, degrees, etc.
NCATE has some stuff on interstate reciprocity. But this only applies if you go to an NCATE accredited school. I forget what that stands for. National Educators something.
http://www.ncate.org/public/stateContacts.aspx?ch=109
NYC certified teachers can teach just about anywhere though, regardless of the NCATE business. I'm sorry this sounds so confusing. It really IS that confusing. |
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Date: July 30th, 2008 11:34 PM Author: Vermilion Principal's Office Cuck update? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=811586&forum_id=3#10024183) |
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Date: August 1st, 2008 5:18 PM Author: Sooty diverse yarmulke I heard back from NYCTF yesterday. I was neither accepted nor rejected. Instead, I was placed in a queue with a couple other applicants. They said they would contact us by late October to update us on openings. What a load of shit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=811586&forum_id=3#10028315) |
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Date: August 1st, 2008 7:18 PM Author: Cream base See what I mean? They suck. I'm really not a cynical guy. The people in the program have this attitude like they're doing you a favor so NYCTF paperwork continually gets shoved at the bottom of the pile. If you pay for your degree you won't have these problems as much because you can just threaten to complain to the bursar.
Seriously, just email me. I've been where you are.
orgasmo123ATfastmail.fm |
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Date: August 1st, 2008 10:47 PM Author: Vermilion Principal's Office Cuck I'm under the impression that she was looking to start asap and not put her chips all-in (before knowing whether teaching is for her) and investing 2 years before she teaches. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=811586&forum_id=3#10028814) |
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Date: August 2nd, 2008 10:20 AM Author: Cream base It doesn't take 2 years.
You get initial/internship certification (they keep changing the name) after 7 classes (1 year F/T). You can pick up a long term sub position before you take one class provided you get sub certification and are enrolled in an Ed program.
Sometimes doing something right is more important than doing something right now. |
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Date: August 1st, 2008 10:44 PM Author: Vermilion Principal's Office Cuck That sucks. You heard back from the people you interviewed with or some nameless person? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=811586&forum_id=3#10028809) |
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Date: August 2nd, 2008 10:03 AM Author: Sooty diverse yarmulke I heard back from some nameless person. It was basically an automated response, no personal analysis or anything. I don't know how committed I can be to the fellowship anyway. I just keep hearing horror stories.
What royally fucked me over was the 5 minute teaching sample.
Out of hundreds of people at the interview, I was placed in a group of 6, wherein the only other girl in my group did her presentation on the SAME EXACT THING as me. (Onomatopoeia) To make matters worse, she did her presentation right before me, and I went last. Her introduction, her examples, all the same as mine. You'd think the judges would have separated our presentations a bit, but they were too stupid to realize it, so I got the shaft. I was pissed, and frazzled, and it showed during my presentation.
The whole ordeal just seemed sort of disingenuous, but I stuck it out. I'm wondering what the rest of the program is really like. |