the most popular american whiskey is bourbon. a mashbill for a whiskey is the allocation of grains a whiskey contains. bourbon must majority corn. (jack daniels meets all the legal requirements for bourbon, and is thus essentially a bourbon by flavor profile despite choosing not to label itself a bourbon, and for the purposes of this i will be classifying it as bourbon). bourbon is by far the most popular american made whiskey. rye whiskey be majority rye. the mashbill for bourbon is a mostly corn, a small amount of barley for helping with fermentation, and a flavoring grain, which is almost always rye. a bourbon whiskey will often be something like 80% corn, 15% rye, 5% barley.

until around the 1980s, american whiskey was extremely popular in america and across the globe. around the 80s tastes began to change, and people started moving over to vodka and other hard liquors. because whiskey needs to be aged, manufactures must anticipate their demand years in advance. as demand dropped, a glut appeared. distilleries had way more barrels of whiskey aging than they could sell. this resulted in a massive consolidation in the industry. distilleries closed down and brands were sold to other distilleries. the most famous of which was stitzel weller, the producer of old fitzgerald and most famously the van winkle line of bourbons. old fitz was bought by heaven hill and van winkle eventually made it's way to buffalo trace. but the point is that brands and distilleries were massively shifted. at this time, rye was extremely unpopular. it was known as your grand father's drink. before the 80s there was a wide variety of rye whiskeys. by the 2010s there were very few. and the ones existed were almost always "barley legal" ryes, that is, where the rye mashbill was only 51% rye. essentially, about one day a year, distilleries would alter their normal bourbon mashbill with enough rye that it could be legally called a rye, and bam! there's their rye whiskey.

2000s:

around the mid 2000s, american whiskey slowly began a resurgence in popularity. however, tastes and consumption changed very slowly. manufactures still had a lot of stock of aged barrels of whiskey that they couldn't sell. extra premium american whiskey was extremely unpopular. you were unlikely to find much whiskey on the shelf aged over 8 years. american whiskey over 10 years old had a vanishingly niche market.

some new, upstart bottlers emerged willing to buy the old stock of distilleries. this includes brands like willett, jeffersons, and michtners. these small brands would buy a few barrels of old stock a distillery couldn't sell, bottle it under their label as a premium product, and sell it to discerning customers. these bottles often were like $30 or so, and now sell for thousands of dollars. also, the age statement on american whiskey refers only to youngest whiskey in the bottle. manufacturers at this time would often dump a lot of their old whiskey into bottles. bottles of whiskey produced before 2010 often contain very old whiskey, and you can often see bottles of shit like wild turkey from the 90s now selling amongst private traders for hundreds or thousands of dollars. dusty hunters emerged during this time, scouring liquor stores for bottles of whiskey that had remained on the shelf for decades. collections now worth millions were bought for hundreds, as these people bought bottles of whiskey from the 60s that had sat on liquor store shelves for generations.

but rye was still your grandfather's drink. aficionados liked it, but there was not enough demands for distilleries to do anything but make their barely legal rye. there were two sources of "real" rye whiskey.

1) canada. canadian whiskey is almost always a blend of many different mashbills. one of the mashbills they make for blending is a 100% rye. higher rye whiskeys are more popular in canada too. rye has always been more popular in the north because it thrives in colder weather. canadians kept drinking their rye or higher rye canadian whiskeys.

2) MGP. MGP (Midwest Grain Products of Indiana) is a contract distillery. they distill a lot of shit, from hand sanitizer to whiskey. they don't (at least, not until recently) make their own products. they make products for other distilleries or brands. almost all the craft whiskey you buy, and some stuff from big labels, comes from mgp. they're huge. one of the products they make is a 95% rye whiskey. around the mid 2000s, some upstart distilleries/brands started buying up mgp's 95% rye and bottling it. brands like smooth ambler and belle meade. the market for rye was still small, but it was starting to envolve past "your grandfather's whiskey" around the 2010s. MGP rye from this time period now sells for many hundreds of dollars.

2010s:

the american whiskey boom is starting to take off. you can now start seeing rye whiskey on liquor store shelves outside of stores that cater to whiskey enthusiasts. however, all the big american manufactures still only make "barely legal" rye. an important thing to remember is that distilleries cannot react immediately to consumer demand because their products require aging.

around the mid 2000s, a huckster by the name of Raj Peter Bhakta appeared on the scene. bhakta is a serial dumbshit entrepreneur that appeared on the apprentice in 2004. despite having no knowledge of the whiskey industry, he decided to start his own rye whiskey distillery. how does one who knows nothing about whiskey start a distillery, especially when it will take several years of aging for the product you make to be legally sold? you buy it from somewhere else. raj is not the first one to come up with this idea, but he is probably the most successful. he calls his distillery whistle pig. and while everyone else is buying 95% rye from mgp, he found an even more interesting source. canada. canada had YUGE warehouses full of 100% rye that is used as a flavoring blend for shit like canada club. raj comes in and offers to buy a bunch of it. and the canadians are happy to unload it. raj bottles this whiskey meant for bottom shelf canadian whiskey into a fancy bottle, charges $70 for it, and BAM! around the 2010s this whiskey becomes a great success. he got really lucky, he was the only one making a extra-aged high rye rye whiskey (although no one seemed to wonder how a company founded in 2006 could be producing 10 year old rye whiskey in the early 2010s...)

by the mid 2010s rye had exploded. but still, all big manufacturers only had barely legal 51% rye. old overton, rittenhouse, sazerac, wild turkey rye, etc... all 51%. basically a bourbon. but mgp had been selling their 95% rye by the boat loads. around 2015 the supply of aged rye whiskeys began to drop. you used to be able to find a 10 year old scout rye on the shelf for $40. now, they were nowhere to be found. the supply was exhausted.

the story today and takeaways:

rye whiskey is still surging in popularity, but supply is very low for older stuff. if you go to private traders you can spend hundreds of dollars on rye from a couple years ago that used to go for $40. you're not finding any premium rye on the shelf at a decent price at any liquor store today. but if you're going to go buy rye, which should you get?

MGP 95%. i put this in it's own category because it encompasses the vast, vast majority of rye whiskey. almost no craft distillery is making and marketing it's own whiskey. it's almost all bought by MGP. exceptions include old scout and willett (historically they've been all MGP, but they started distilling in the mid 2010s, and now their product is coming of age). if you see a 95% rye whiskey, it's MGP. this includes bulleit. it's ALL THE SAME. MGP even ages it for most of their customers. if you're sitting around arguing what's better between bulleit rye, or new riff, or prichards, or sagamore... you're a retard. they're ALL THE SAME. exception for some companies that take MGP rye and do something special with it. for example, high west will rebarrel mgp rye into port barrels and other things to add something to it. redevous rye, however, is just pure old mgp. mgp rye is VERY well respected in the bourbon community and is great stuff. but just be aware that almost all the brands of rye you see exactly the same.

whistle pig: bhakta is a retard that go lucky. but it turns on canadian 100% rye is very good. is it $70 good? not really, but there really aren't a lot of products out there competing with it you can get on the shelf, so go for it. whistle pig is one of the most deceptive brands on the market. lots of whiskey is smoke and mirrors, but these guys take it to another level. for example, their "farmhouse" whiskey (made on their farm!) contains like 1% whistlepig distilled whiskey. buy their premium products with caution.

sazerac/old overton/rittenhouse/wild turkey rye: these are the american rye whiskeys made by the big american distilleries. they are all "barley legal" 51% rye whiskey. but, hey, they're pretty fucking good. sazerac (buffalo trace) makes an 18 year version that is really fucking good. and rittenhouse at one time released their old 21 year+ stock. but it isn't really going to tickle your "rye whiskey" fancy if you get really into rye. they taste like really high rye bourbon to me. if you're going to "have some rye", go with bulleit or something.

woodford reserve/old forester: one small thing to whiskey peeps: woodford reserve bourbon is complete flame. brown foreman, the parent company of jack daniels, also makes old forester and woodford. woodford's "premium" appeal is that it's made in pot stills. what they don't tell you is that it's 98% old forester with a dash of the pot still whiskey. it's flame, don't buy it. it's fine, tastes great, but it's not a "premium" product. however, they've recently released a 65% rye that is pretty fucking good. conensus seems to be that old forester rye and woodford are exactly the same. pretty good stuff, stick with the old forester.

col e h taylor: col taylor is made by buffalo trace. until recently, all rye made from buffalo trace has been 51%. col e h taylor is higher than that, the mashbill hasn't been released by i'd peg it around 70%. this is probably the best rye on the market for my money. sadly, it has very recently become impossible to buy due to demand. if you see it on the shelf for $70 scoop it up.

i think that just about covers it. 95% of american whiskey is flame and smoke and mirrors. rye whiskey is probably the worst of all because it went from "no one drinks this shit" to "zomg i love rye" in about 10 years.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#42648413)

Though I think I came at it organically. A friend got me into Manhattans and reading about them I realized rye was the original way to make them, so I looked into buying rye, bought a bottle and really enjoyed the spiciness compared to bourbon

I've only had bulleit, Woodford reserve, high west double rye, and Woodinville rye to date. High west probably my favorite. Thanks for making me feel like a chump lol. Had whistle pig on my list but guess I'll avoid it

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#42650687)

i'm a big fan of hw products. whistlepig is great too. it's complete marketing flame from some literal turdskin who bought canadian rye and put it in a fancy bottle. but there aren't a lot of 100% 10 year ryes widely available. not "worth" nearly $70 but it's the only product in it's class right now.

i'm a gigantic fan of high west. the cool thing about them is they are pretty transparent, you can click notes on their website which tells you exactly where the sourced their whiskey (everyone else tries to hide the ball). their double rye is fine. it's a "blend" between the stuff they're making and mgp. however, what these "blends" never tell you is the percentage. it tastes like 95% mgp to me. high west hasn't been making whiskey for that long, and they can't have made enough aged rye to supply a significant amount of the whiskey in that bottle.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#42650718)

Do you like Rendezvous?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#42650789)

rendezvous is great. like double rye it's just a blend of mgp and high west's stuff. rumored to be a bit older than double rye, but there are no age statements on either.

i trust high west, they make a great product for the $ always. the rendezvouses i've had have been great.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#42650812)

it's EXCELLENT, although i'm a big port fan so i'm biased.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#42650815)

Now go try Woodinville and tell me what you think since I can't make judgments myself (though i already bought it and do enjoy it but want your take) https://thewhiskeyjug.com/rye-whiskey/woodinville-straight-rye-review/

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#42650828)

no way i'm spending $55 on some 2 year old whiskey aged in small barrels! but if i come across it to taste i will try it and let you know.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#42650847)

I'll need to pay closer attention next time I open it but a few reviews I read did comment on the papery/woody taste, which would make sense given what you said about it necessarily being young/small barrel

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#42650862)

'e' is for american whiskeys.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#42650877)

Enjoyed your OP btw. We really need more whisk[e]y threading here. Also becoming a mezcal dilettante.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#42652063)

the whiskey industry intentionally obfuscates everything. i don't begrudge any consumer for not knowing this shit.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#42650732)

Also it was lulzy - they all laugh at morons who buy "pappy" and they think its overrated shit

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#42650802)

makers mark is much better than people give it credit for, and makers mark cask strength is probably the best widely available bourbon today. makers mark was started with pappy van winkles recipe and yeast strain. the only reason it isn't as hyped is because it's popular.

pappy is "worth it" if you can find it close to retail. people that say it isn't just have sour grapes about not being able to get it.

the weller line of products is just ok. they sat around for years and were outsold by makers until people got pappy crazy. special reserve is bottom shelf swill. antique and 12 year are great but not worth hunting for. w. l. weller is one of the finest whiskeys made, though.

people are really into "wheaters" because of pappy. the consensus of among most bourbon people before pappy mania is rye is the superior grain, which is why 80% of bourbons are rye based. i think both have their merits, but be distrustful of all the WhEaTeRs! people because they are often just hype beasts.

avoid larceny.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#42650777)

have a blind taste test with these people and watch them sweat.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#42650874)

I've had Weller Antique since then in bars and it was fine I guess.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#42650839)

1) before bourbon went crazy, no one was buying whiskey at all. and thus a lot of distilleries just put really old stuff in the bottles. because of this, lot of the old weller from years ago is really fucking good and has some extra aged stuff in it.

2) private picks of weller are single barrel. the thing about single barrels is they can range from shit to some of the best whiskey ever. you could have had a really good bottle of single barrel owa.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#42650863)

the 10 year single barrel version of it is quite good (unknown source, but quite good).

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#42651114)

Why the hate for larceny?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#42651421)

people putting down evan williams, benchmark, old crow, etc really have no idea what they're talking about. the rail bourbon at some bars is superior to the shit they put in craft cocktails.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#42650833)

i drink wild turkey 101 and evan williams bottled in bond all the time despite having a VERY PRESTIGIOUS collection.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#42650979)

knob creek is made by beam, who is the maker of old overholt. knob creek is essentially extra aged and higher proof old overholt. it's good stuff! it's a "barely legal" rye that is just over 50% rye.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#42650837)

dickel is mgp. identical to bulleit.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#42650865)

Srsly 180 thread, very scholarly

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#42650872)

i'm really careful with anything potentially outing until i get out of gc hell world.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#42651086)

just realize that 90% of rye whiskey is just mgp with a different label.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#42650991)

none of the major whiskey producers anticipated rye becoming so popular, and they all have just been making 51% rye forever. maybe some good stuff from them will be coming out soon. i'm not a fan of 51% rye, so whatever mgp you can find on the shelf is just about the only option. ch taylor is fantastic if you can find it, but not really a "value buy" at $70.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#42651004)

note: cheap doesn't mean bad. sometimes great whiskey is very affordable. it's just that the canadians have a lot of whiskey aging that some americans want to try to put in a fancy bottle and sell for 4x it's market value.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#42652171)

Whiskey I cry

If I don't get rye whiskey, well, I think I will die

It's a beefsteak when I'm hungry

Rye whiskey when I'm dry

Greenbacks when I'm hard up

Heaven when I die

I'll a-go to yonder holl-er

And I'll build me a still

I'll give you a gallon for a five dollar bill

Ha, whiskey, rye whiskey

Whiskey, I cry

If a tree don't fall on me

I'll live 'til I die

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#42651420)

You've robbed my poor pockets of silver and gold

It's a whiskey, you villain, you've been my downfall

You've kicked me, you've cuffed me, but I love you for all

And it's a whiskey, rye whiskey

Whiskey I cry

If I don't get rye whiskey, well, I think I will die

It's a beefsteak when I'm hungry

Rye whiskey when I'm dry

Greenbacks when I'm hard up

Heaven when I die

I'll a-go to yonder holl-er

And I'll build me a still

I'll give you a gallon for a five dollar bill

Ha, whiskey, rye whiskey

Whiskey, I cry

If a tree don't fall on me

I'll live 'til I die

If the ocean was whiskey (ssss (hic))

And I was a duck

I'd dive to the bottom and never come (hic)

I meant to say "up"

Now the ocean ain't whiskey (hic)

I ain't a duck

I'll play Jack o' Diamond

And trust to my luck

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha

Whiskey, rye whiskey

Whiskey, I cry

If a whiskey don't kill me

I'll live 'til I die

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#42652090)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kj4CUWc7CxA#t=37m55s

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#42652115)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhhlHVsaUOA

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#42652131)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kcm3hXoMoWc

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#42652134)

They say I drink whisky,

My money's my own;

All who don't like me,

Can leave me alone.

Sometimes I drink whisky,

Sometimes I drink rum,

Sometimes I drink brandy,

At other times none.

Rye whisky, rye whisky,

Rye whisky, I cry,

If I dont get rye whisky,

I surely will die.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#42652149)

I'll drink my own wine,

Some ten thousand bottles

I've killed in my time.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#42652153)

yeah, the melody is different from possum up a gum tree...but the mix of lyrics is weird...

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#42652162)

1. There is gold amongst the shit when it comes to Whistlepig, but you absolutely positively have to do your due diligence. I've had some delicious store picks from them, but it's not a name you can trust on site. They'll put out absolutely trash and charge $100. Try before you buy if at all possible.

2. Agree 100% on Woodford Rye. People are sleeping on it right now. Happy to see it commonly on bar shelves now.

3. Disagree on EHT. Seems like less than 70% rye to me and when I've had it in lineups with other rye it just tastes more like a bt mashbill bourbon than anything. Add in the scarcity and price gouging for it and it ain't worth the time imo.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#42651497)

i agree the scarcity and price gouging = not worth the time. just a couple years ago it was widely available.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#42652179)

The only one I chase is the Van Winkle Rye. It's the one VW product that lives up to the hype IMO.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#42652344)

van winkle doesn't "live up to the hype" if you're expecting them to be 20-30x better than other products based on the market price differential. but they're certainly elite whiskeys.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#43700323)

thought about this thread today noticed this comment. i actually got a chance to stay at whistlepig last year because i bought barrels for store picks. probably the most 180 experience of my life. they hosted us in this farmhouse with endless top tier whiskey, had a private chef, concierge (miss vermont!).

https://imgur.com/a/1AMh31J

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#48180236)

these distinctions are meaningless now, because during prohibition and the bourbon consolidation i mentioned in my op, all these brands were sold to the remaining major american distilleries. there used to be hundreds of distilleries across the country with unique, local brands. they've all been sold and consolidated into a few distilleries now. rittenhouse is made by heaven hill and old overholt is made by beam. both are just 51% barely legal rye and indistinguishable from their original recipe.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#42652161)

oh wow! thanks!

(why can't they just get me a bottle of WT101?)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#43668901)

i mention makers mark a lot because a lot of people got on pappy (and now weller) mania. makers mark cask strength is probably just as good as weller full proof, but weller fp goes for like $300 now and is impossible to find. but it's only because of pappy hype. 10 years ago you could find weller on the shelf all the time and it wasn't particularly popular. people genuinely interested in wheated bourbon often don't consider makers because they assume because it's widely available it's not good.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4859635&forum_id=2)#43948036)