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Theory: the reason the West vaulted past China was the alphabet.
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Date: March 31st, 2012 5:41 PM Author: Crimson factory reset button cumskin With 24 or so letters, once the technology for the printing press came along, it was much easier to disseminate information that could then be improved upon by anyone who could read. As opposed to a language with a different character for every word. Printing technology would almost be useless and information would only remain with a handful of people thus limiting the pool that could improve upon it.
Just a random thought. |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 5:44 PM Author: vibrant brethren step-uncle's house I can't believe the slanty-eyes are STILL using that hieroglyphics shit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#20356307) |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 8:10 PM Author: fishy tanning salon The Koreans got their shit together.
Japan sort of got its shit together. |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 5:44 PM Author: self-absorbed french chef garrison Dr. Samuel Johnson said the same thing bro (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#20356310) |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 5:51 PM Author: Crimson factory reset button cumskin link? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#20356354) |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 7:47 PM Author: self-absorbed french chef garrison my fucked up memory that intently holds onto trivia (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#20357026) |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 7:50 PM Author: abusive cream locale (guy who just read Guns Germs and Steel, trying to pass it off as his own theory) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#20357042) |
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Date: March 4th, 2025 12:54 AM Author: Electric idea he suggested Fun fact: The Chinese actually invented movable type hundreds of years before Gutenberg. But it never really caught on the way it did in Europe for precisely the reason that you outlined here. So you may be on to something. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#48712176) |
Date: March 31st, 2012 5:44 PM Author: demanding flatulent pit lol at a modern country still using hieroglyphics. what a primitive, inefficient and idiotic way to structure a language. Chinese children now actually learn the ALPHABET first (pinyin) to help them learn their fucked up picture language. |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 5:57 PM Author: Claret Slippery Piazza Mediation (rage-filled cumskin dork) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#20356400) |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 5:59 PM Author: Contagious gas station What's the chinese character for NOWAG? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#20356408) |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 6:09 PM Author: concupiscible purple library (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#20356469) |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 6:15 PM Author: onyx abode Greetings, (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#20356509) |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 6:19 PM Author: Brindle boyish area <><><> (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#20356527) |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 7:17 PM Author: Supple national hairy legs (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#20356879) |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 8:08 PM Author: silver really tough guy (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#20357130) |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 8:12 PM Author: ocher base (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#20357154) |
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Date: March 4th, 2025 12:01 AM Author: irradiated range (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#48712077) |
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Date: August 14th, 2026 1:50 AM Author: Motley misunderstood public bath (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#50067111) |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 6:04 PM Author: Domesticated Violent Prole Crackhouse Primitive form of language for a primitive people. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#20356435) |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 6:05 PM Author: ocher base also azn hive minds lack creativity centers (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#20356448) |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 6:07 PM Author: Wine hunting ground bawdyhouse ITT: Guy who doesn't even know how many letters are in the alphabet extolls the linguistic superiority of Europeans (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#20356461) |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 6:41 PM Author: Crimson factory reset button cumskin I'm sorry you are unaware that not all of the languages in Europe have 26 characters, or that there's more than one alphabet used in the West, or that Gutenberg only used "24 or so" characters when this whole printing thing took off. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#20356682) |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 6:21 PM Author: Brindle boyish area Ive always wondered this
SLANTEYES - being fluent in both english and your hometown primitive language, is it as easy to be as expressive in your home tongue? |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 6:21 PM Author: ivory up-to-no-good immigrant Coal deposits near major urban centers. It had everything to do with an energy revolution. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#20356545) |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 6:42 PM Author: Crimson factory reset button cumskin Really? They don't have the same natural resources in all of Asia as they did in the West? I'm surprised. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#20356691) |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 7:50 PM Author: Domesticated Violent Prole Crackhouse LOL no (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#20357040) |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 8:48 PM Author: ivory up-to-no-good immigrant you are a complete moron, but thanks for playing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_miracle |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 7:51 PM Author: self-centered marketing idea no, the reason is because, one day, long ago, China decided to close up shop to the rest of the world. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#20357048) |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 7:54 PM Author: self-absorbed french chef garrison Right after they launched eunuchs out around the world right (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#20357068) |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 8:01 PM Author: zippy scarlet market tcr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#20357094) |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 8:03 PM Author: heady impressive sound barrier office that's a circular argument, though. it glosses right over the implicit fact that in order for that to have been possible, the chinese people were already way more subservient and respectful toward authority than the europeans.
in china, an emperor could simply order a halt to exploration, and it would be halted.
in europe, a king who did that would probably get a sword through the back the next night in his castle, and everyone would ignore him anyway.
that's a cultural difference worth exploring, to say the least. |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 8:09 PM Author: Floppy magenta resort Yes and no. There were peasant rebellions in CHinese history.
It's Confucianism + a lack of any value for reason, esp the post-enlightenment concept of it.
The Chinese see a leader as someone who decides. One viewpoint is always better than many, even if many are seen as fine. The leader is not necessarily someone who must be right through anything resembling reason in the Western sense. It's one of the reasons Maoism is so batshit insane (it fuses Marxism with COnfucianism with Psychoticism).
Their culture is different. Really different.
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Date: March 31st, 2012 8:11 PM Author: heady impressive sound barrier office CHINESE EMPEROR: Burn the fleet!
CHINESE PEOPLE: Yes, Emperor!
*fleet is burned*
EUROPEAN KING: Burn the fleet!
KING'S SUBJECTS: Fuck off you fucking cunt!
*smashes in king's skull with a mace* |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 8:12 PM Author: Domesticated Violent Prole Crackhouse (Ignores Divine Right of Kings & its legitimacy with the common man during the middle ages) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#20357161) |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 8:13 PM Author: heady impressive sound barrier office european kings from 600AD to the end of the monarchial age got slaughtered and killed regularly (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#20357166) |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 8:15 PM Author: Domesticated Violent Prole Crackhouse Not randomly by the common people, though, which is what you were saying. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#20357183) |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 8:16 PM Author: heady impressive sound barrier office by "subjects" i meant knights, members of the king's court, and so on (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#20357187) |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 8:17 PM Author: Domesticated Violent Prole Crackhouse Why compare the Chinese "people" (undoubtedly referring to peasants, etc.) to Western knights & nobles? That makes no sense. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#20357192) |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 8:20 PM Author: Floppy magenta resort It makes even less sense when you compare Han to the Middle Ages
Hell the Han even had a fucking tales of chivalry/knight errant genre a la Chretien (or maybe Amadis is more appropriate?) called Youxia |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 8:22 PM Author: Domesticated Violent Prole Crackhouse I know nothing of China during the period, but yes, I'd think the comparison is probably a rather complex one. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#20357218) |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 8:31 PM Author: Floppy magenta resort They had peasant rebellions too e.g. Yellow Turban.
It's dramatized in Romance of the 3 Kingdoms, if memory serves.
Han is the nearest analogue to the middle ages.
We're all neglecting the fact that Chinese culture is very old.
I would recommend reading ROT3K or playing Dynasty Warriors 3-6 (it's actually pretty faithful) for further background on this phenomena. |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 8:18 PM Author: Floppy magenta resort "Kings" until damned near the late medieval period were nowhere near Pharaohs/Chinese Emperors etc in terms of subjects or power.
Nations didn't even exist in much of Europe and when they did, feudalism complicates things e.g. Henry II was a feudal vassal of France. |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 8:21 PM Author: Domesticated Violent Prole Crackhouse What? Henry II lived well before nations came into existence. Even Henry II of France lived before the idea of nations. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#20357214) |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 8:29 PM Author: Floppy magenta resort It's debatable. Henry II was in control of more land than his lord.
Where would you start? The assimilation/deposition of the French ruling class? THe hundred years war? |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 8:31 PM Author: Domesticated Violent Prole Crackhouse Nations as opposed to vassalage kingdoms?
The 17th century. The Peace of Westphalia, 1648.
It's really a progress during the 17th century, but the Westphalia Peace gave sovereigns the first kind of state-like authority.
Certainly not at any time before the 1600s, though. |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 8:31 PM Author: Floppy magenta resort Fair. Politically I can't argue with it.
I'd still say British national identity (in England at least) was cemented much earlier, if not formalized.
Kissinger fan? |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 8:39 PM Author: heady impressive sound barrier office the modern nation-state system started coming into shape after the concordat of worms in 1122 and then the pre-magna carta reorderings in england (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#20357309) |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 8:40 PM Author: Floppy magenta resort Magna Carta was vital.... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#20357315) |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 8:40 PM Author: Garnet Whorehouse The most powerful European players in the 16th century were the Swedes and the Poles-Lithuanians. Britain and France were fucking backwaters. And Spain and Portugal didn't start to matter until the middle of the 17th century. It wasn't until the 1560's that they really started getting rich off the New World. From 1500-1650 the real wealth and power was in eastern Europe and the West was still poor and shitty. The first real nation state in Europe was Sweden. And they had the first real professional army long before the Prussians. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#20357312) |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 8:42 PM Author: Floppy magenta resort I was referring to the MC, the Hundred Years War (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#20357321) |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 8:43 PM Author: heady impressive sound barrier office one of the things i find weird about european history is how important the anglo-dutch relationship used to be. also, the dynastic rulership of spain. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#20357325) |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 8:12 PM Author: fishy tanning salon Don't piss off the job creators. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#20357153) |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 8:29 PM Author: Garnet Whorehouse Nope, for starters the Chinese didn't merely decide to look inward. They go their asses kicked repeatedly over a 200 year period by white people. For starters in the 1600's they ran up against the Russian Czars for the first time whose tiny far eastern armies mauled the shit out of much larger Chinese forces. This scared the Chinese too sh*t and they signed a peace treaty with the Czars ending any hope of Chinese expansion north. Prior to that the various Mongol Khanates time and time again got their asses kicked trying to invade Europe. The shitty Mongol horses were no match for the European armored war horse. Mongol forces 5x the size of any European army were simply smashed to bits. The later Chinese emperors learned the lessons of the Khans -- don't fuck with those crazy Christians. It took military setbacks to make them look inward.
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Date: March 31st, 2012 8:37 PM Author: Floppy magenta resort And when they looked outward we pwn3d them with Opium (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#20357302) |
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Date: March 31st, 2012 11:43 PM Author: Glittery scourge upon the earth senate link? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#20358375) |
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Date: February 26th, 2025 9:28 PM Author: hank_scorpio
azn's still haven't really discovered writing, they are just using a bunch of hieroglyphs
http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5536032&forum_id=2#48697467 |
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Date: March 3rd, 2025 11:14 PM Author: dashing bull headed field Yeah I'm pretty sure it's a prerequisite for Code of Laws and Writing (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#48711999) |
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Date: March 3rd, 2025 11:55 PM Author: Talented Medicated Laser Beams Half-breed Explain the Philippines, Indonesia and Vietnam (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#48712059) |
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Date: March 4th, 2025 1:00 AM Author: Nubile adventurous rehab Were never ever important centers of anything, unlike China which actually was a leading state before becoming TTT and getting pwned by the West. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#48712182) |
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Date: March 4th, 2025 1:05 AM Author: Lascivious talking round eye and the alphabet sucks
why not three dimensional ambigramic characters like a real civilization
barbaric |
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Date: August 13th, 2026 11:37 PM Author: carnelian fighting hominid telephone https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=2789525&mc=104&forum_id=2#27169724 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#50066995) |
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Date: August 14th, 2026 12:31 AM Author: bronze heaven Why didn't Vietnam catapult past its neighbors after it adopted the Roman alphabet? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#50067044) |
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Date: August 14th, 2026 2:00 AM Author: carnelian fighting hominid telephone They added all of those stupid symbols and stress marks that made it an unpronounceable mess. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#50067121) |
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Date: August 14th, 2026 8:23 AM Author: bronze heaven Now do the Philippines and Indonesia (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#50067335) |
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Date: August 20th, 2026 9:46 PM Author: Mauve diverse psychic genital piercing pretty obviously, the Gospel was what catapulted the West above all other regions.
everyone wants to migrate to what was formerly called Christendom, and to the extent that region is falling it's because the region has fallen away from the Gospel. |
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Date: August 23rd, 2026 8:33 PM Author: bronze heaven Agent xo has reviewed this thread and has some thoughts:
The alphabet theory has real teeth but nobody's calibrating it right. The OP is pointing at something genuine: Chinese movable type was technically inferior to block printing for logographic writing. A Chinese page needs 5,000+ distinct type pieces; a German page needs ~200. The assembly cost per page made movable type functionally useless for Chinese, even though they invented it centuries before Gutenberg. That's documented — Dieter Stein has the research. The printing press catalyzed Europe's information explosion partly because Europe's writing system made the technology actually work. But it's necessary, not sufficient. Korea designed Hangul — arguably the best alphabetic writing system ever — in 1443, had printing technology, and still didn't industrialize. Vietnam adopted the Roman alphabet in the 1600s and didn't either. The alphabet → printing → diffusion chain needs other links: institutions that can't just shut down exploration because an emperor has a bad mood, property rights, a merchant class with disposable capital. The coal argument above is probably the stronger single cause. Energy density is the hard bottleneck. But even that doesn't explain Britain vs. France, both of which had coal. So you need the institutional layer (Acemoglu/Robinson): Europe's fragmentation meant no single authority could suppress innovation everywhere. Once information escaped one jurisdiction, it was free. The alphabet just made it cheap to copy. Bottom line: the alphabet made the printing press work for Europe and not for China. But the printing press alone doesn't explain why Europe used what it printed. |
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Date: August 23rd, 2026 8:38 PM Author: bronze heaven not my analysis (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1912841&forum_id=2).#50088042) |
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