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Advice on collecting on Cognovit Promissory Note debtor when moved out of state?

Wife and I own some out of state rental properties. A tenant...
hairless office generalized bond
  12/11/22
This tenant was personally awful and called us racists (like...
hairless office generalized bond
  12/11/22
...
hairless office generalized bond
  12/11/22
Is this law board
hairless office generalized bond
  12/11/22
You can't use a cognovit (confession of judgment) note by it...
Cordovan floppy quadroon theatre
  12/11/22
I think we need to analyze the choice of law problem here be...
self-centered university liquid oxygen
  12/11/22
But don’t you want to know first how MO deals with cog...
Cordovan floppy quadroon theatre
  12/11/22
Missouri has adopted uniform enforcement of foreign judgment...
self-centered university liquid oxygen
  12/12/22
I could get judgment where I live (3rd state, neither Ohio n...
hairless office generalized bond
  12/12/22
Probably gotta get a garnishment or drop a bank levy on that...
Primrose diverse business firm really tough guy
  12/11/22
Don’t know what bank she uses but 100% want to garnish...
hairless office generalized bond
  12/12/22
If you get garnishment do they generally let you apply Inte...
hairless office generalized bond
  12/13/22
...
hairless office generalized bond
  02/28/23
...
hairless office generalized bond
  03/06/23
Get a judgment on the note in your state. Then domesticate t...
Razzle-dazzle gay church water buffalo
  12/11/22
The two options the lawyer in the first state (Ohio), who dr...
hairless office generalized bond
  12/12/22
Going straight to Missouri would be cheaper, but you run the...
self-centered university liquid oxygen
  12/13/22
RE complying I’m not sure, does the text below shed a ...
hairless office generalized bond
  12/13/22
Getting an Ohio judgment first is the safer route, but unles...
self-centered university liquid oxygen
  12/14/22
Thanks, appreciate this.
hairless office generalized bond
  12/14/22
Still on this path btw, in the New Year.
hairless office generalized bond
  12/30/22
...
hairless office generalized bond
  01/16/23
Any progress?
self-centered university liquid oxygen
  01/17/23
Indeed!
hairless office generalized bond
  02/28/23
UPDATE: We have retained a Missouri shitlawyer who is skille...
hairless office generalized bond
  02/27/23
you got a good deal if he's right
Motley bonkers base rigpig
  02/27/23
how is this gonna be worth his time? 25% of garnished wages ...
godawful puce ticket booth
  02/27/23
No idea. Collections seems to be his whole practice so I ass...
hairless office generalized bond
  02/27/23
Also we kind of teed it up by identifying her employer (and ...
hairless office generalized bond
  02/28/23
...
hairless office generalized bond
  03/05/23
This is probably the best-case scenario. Presumably the shit...
self-centered university liquid oxygen
  03/05/23
180. It definitely doesn’t state the reason the debt w...
hairless office generalized bond
  03/06/23
Prescient
hairless office generalized bond
  06/09/23
Court date set, a couple of months out. Lawyer says we won&r...
hairless office generalized bond
  03/11/23
...
hairless office generalized bond
  03/11/23
...
hairless office generalized bond
  03/12/23
Ah, the vagaries of practice in Missouri. Service of the...
self-centered university liquid oxygen
  03/13/23
Hmm. TY for the insight.
hairless office generalized bond
  03/13/23
I guess if he wants to do it that way and he’s doing i...
hairless office generalized bond
  03/15/23
Keep us updated.
self-centered university liquid oxygen
  03/17/23
See below!
hairless office generalized bond
  06/04/23
UPDATE: deadbeat ex-tenant appeared in court and signed a co...
hairless office generalized bond
  06/04/23
Sounds like progress, hopefully she remains employed. Local ...
self-centered university liquid oxygen
  06/04/23
180
hairless office generalized bond
  06/04/23
Update, received first payment check (minus the 25% continge...
hairless office generalized bond
  06/09/23
Keep those $225 checks rolling in!
self-centered university liquid oxygen
  06/10/23
Boom!
hairless office generalized bond
  06/11/23


Poast new message in this thread



Reply

Date: December 11th, 2022 5:26 PM
Author: hairless office generalized bond

Wife and I own some out of state rental properties. A tenant did $11k in damage (which is impressive in a way since the unit is only worth $100k…) and agreed to make payments of $250 per month on it, at 5% interest. We got her to sign and notarize a Cognovit Promissory Note acknowledging the debt and (as I understand it… not a lolyer!) understood that to negate the need to go to court later.

Fast forward more than a year, she’s paid less than $500 total, not even covering the interest for the year. We’ve gotten zero from her for 3 months. She has moved out of state but we know where she lives and where she is employed. (She has an ok, steady job—she could pay, she’s just a deadbeat.)

Advice on collecting this? I assume the next step is garnishing wages.

Neither the state the house is in or the state the debtor moved to is the one we live in. I assume the next step is calling a shitlawyer in the state she moved to (Missouri, if it matters) but what should we be looking for that person to do for us?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#45618182)



Reply

Date: December 11th, 2022 5:40 PM
Author: hairless office generalized bond

This tenant was personally awful and called us racists (like we would’ve been ok that her kids broke several bedroom doors in half and punched fist-sized holes in the wall, and a dozen other ridiculous things, if she was white??) several times so we don’t mind going to some extra effort here.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#45618224)



Reply

Date: December 11th, 2022 8:01 PM
Author: hairless office generalized bond



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#45618618)



Reply

Date: December 11th, 2022 9:23 PM
Author: hairless office generalized bond

Is this law board

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#45618950)



Reply

Date: December 11th, 2022 11:21 PM
Author: Cordovan floppy quadroon theatre

You can't use a cognovit (confession of judgment) note by itself as a tool to enforce a judgment or garnish someone's wages. You still have to appear (your lawyer will appear for you) in court to get an enforceable judgment. What cognovit does in its pure form is allow you to get a judgment without notifying the debtor or having a trial or hearing. Once you get the judgment you obviously still have to find a way to execute it. Clearly cognovit notes are subject to abuse, so many states don't allow them or restrict them to commercial transactions. In some cases they even have technical requirements such as requiring big print or warning language. I don't know what Missouri law is, though my vague recollection is that it recognizes cognovits, but may have some specific requirements which your note may or may not meet. I suggest you contact a Missouri lawyer in the area where the debtor lives. You will want to find someone skilled in business/commercial law, since you don't often find these used in consumer transactions. Suggest you try a sole practitioner or a small firm. Nothing wrong with going to a big firm, but under these circumstances I would suppose you are likely to get better service from a small outfit. I would suggest Googling around and finding a likely looking lawyer and call him or her.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#45619331)



Reply

Date: December 11th, 2022 11:32 PM
Author: self-centered university liquid oxygen

I think we need to analyze the choice of law problem here before recommending action in Missouri. Based on OP, there are potentially three states in play. It might be easier to go to Missouri with a foreign judgment.

Does the Note have a choice of law or forum selection clause?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#45619348)



Reply

Date: December 11th, 2022 11:59 PM
Author: Cordovan floppy quadroon theatre

But don’t you want to know first how MO deals with cognovits? They might piss on a foreign judgment. These things have fallen out of favor in consumer debt, but no idea about MO.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#45619403)



Reply

Date: December 12th, 2022 2:37 AM
Author: self-centered university liquid oxygen

Missouri has adopted uniform enforcement of foreign judgments. See Section 511.760.1, RSMo.

The Note is least likely to be governed by Missouri law based on OP. As another poaster suggested below, OP probably could get judgment in his home state, then register the foreign judgment in Missouri, then follow Missouri procedure for garnishment.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#45619599)



Reply

Date: December 12th, 2022 10:32 PM
Author: hairless office generalized bond

I could get judgment where I live (3rd state, neither Ohio nor Missouri) then transfer to Missouri? Or better just to do it in Missouri?

For reference here’s what the note says after laying out what’s owed and payment terms:

EDIT: circumstances are just described as “for value received”, maybe that’s not enough?

And then….

“If any payment hereunder is not made pursuant to the above, the Maker authorizes any attorney at law to appear in any Court of record in the United States or any state or territory thereof in which judgment may be obtained and waive the issuance and service of process and confess judgment against the undersigned in favor of any holder hereof for the amount then due hereunder, together with all costs, reasonable attorney fees, and accrued interest thereupon releasing all heirs and waiving all rights of appeal and stay of execution. The Makers hereby waives presentment for payment, protest, and notice of presentment.

**WARNING** BY SIGNING THIS PAPER, YOU (MAKER) GIVE UP YOUR RIGHT TO NOTICE AND COURT TRIAL. IF YOU (MAKER) DO NOT PAY ON TIME, A COURT JUDGMENT MAY BE TAKEN AGAINST YOU (MAKER) WITHOUT YOUR PRIOR KNOWLEDGE AND THE POWERS OF THE COURT CAN BE USED TO COLLECT FROM YOU (MAKER) REGARDLESS OF ANY CLAIMS YOU MAY (MAKER) HAVE AGAINST THE CREDITOR WHETHER FOR RETURN GOODS, FAULTY GOODS, FAILURE ON HIS PART TO COMPLY WITH THE AGREEMENT, OR ANY OTHER CAUSE OR DEFENSE.”

That last bit is bolded and also at the top of the note.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#45624578)



Reply

Date: December 11th, 2022 11:32 PM
Author: Primrose diverse business firm really tough guy

Probably gotta get a garnishment or drop a bank levy on that bitch lmao.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#45619347)



Reply

Date: December 12th, 2022 10:34 PM
Author: hairless office generalized bond

Don’t know what bank she uses but 100% want to garnish.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#45624584)



Reply

Date: December 13th, 2022 11:13 PM
Author: hairless office generalized bond

If you get garnishment do they generally let you apply

Interest until it’s paid off?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#45630198)



Reply

Date: February 28th, 2023 9:45 PM
Author: hairless office generalized bond



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#45995041)



Reply

Date: March 6th, 2023 10:13 AM
Author: hairless office generalized bond



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#46015578)



Reply

Date: December 11th, 2022 11:36 PM
Author: Razzle-dazzle gay church water buffalo

Get a judgment on the note in your state. Then domesticate that judgment in the debtor's state. Get a fi. fa. and show up with a sheriff and take their furniture and lightbulbs for courthouse auction.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#45619357)



Reply

Date: December 12th, 2022 10:27 PM
Author: hairless office generalized bond

The two options the lawyer in the first state (Ohio), who drafted the note, suggested were basically get a judgment in Ohio and then transfer to Missouri, or refer us to a lawyer in Missouri and seek a judgment there.

It wasn’t clear which was better, or more likely to result in a recovery, to me at least.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#45624541)



Reply

Date: December 13th, 2022 12:08 AM
Author: self-centered university liquid oxygen

Going straight to Missouri would be cheaper, but you run the risk of a podunk Missouri judge deciding to apply Missouri law instead of Ohio law in a possible choice of law argument. Does your instrument comply with MO ST 511.080 et seq.?

Having the drafting attorney obtain judgment in Ohio will guarantee you a judgment, which you will then have to register in Missouri, likely with the aid of Missouri counsel (who can then assist with garnishment).

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#45624959)



Reply

Date: December 13th, 2022 8:34 PM
Author: hairless office generalized bond

RE complying I’m not sure, does the text below shed a clue? (This is basically the whole document other than names, addresses, amounts/payment terms, and notarization.)

EDIT: circumstances are just described as “for value received”, maybe that’s not enough?

And then….

“If any payment hereunder is not made pursuant to the above, the Maker authorizes any attorney at law to appear in any Court of record in the United States or any state or territory thereof in which judgment may be obtained and waive the issuance and service of process and confess judgment against the undersigned in favor of any holder hereof for the amount then due hereunder, together with all costs, reasonable attorney fees, and accrued interest thereupon releasing all heirs and waiving all rights of appeal and stay of execution. The Makers hereby waives presentment for payment, protest, and notice of presentment.

**WARNING** BY SIGNING THIS PAPER, YOU (MAKER) GIVE UP YOUR RIGHT TO NOTICE AND COURT TRIAL. IF YOU (MAKER) DO NOT PAY ON TIME, A COURT JUDGMENT MAY BE TAKEN AGAINST YOU (MAKER) WITHOUT YOUR PRIOR KNOWLEDGE AND THE POWERS OF THE COURT CAN BE USED TO COLLECT FROM YOU (MAKER) REGARDLESS OF ANY CLAIMS YOU MAY (MAKER) HAVE AGAINST THE CREDITOR WHETHER FOR RETURN GOODS, FAULTY GOODS, FAILURE ON HIS PART TO COMPLY WITH THE AGREEMENT, OR ANY OTHER CAUSE OR DEFENSE.”

That last bit is bolded and also at the top of the note.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#45629400)



Reply

Date: December 14th, 2022 3:17 AM
Author: self-centered university liquid oxygen

Getting an Ohio judgment first is the safer route, but unless you're planning on doing the garnishment yourself, you'll need a Missouri shitlawyer/collections attorney. You might as well find the Missouri collections attorney now and see whether they would roll the dice on bringing the confession action in Missouri.

OldHLSDude had some good suggestions above re finding a Missouri attorney.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#45630858)



Reply

Date: December 14th, 2022 9:57 PM
Author: hairless office generalized bond

Thanks, appreciate this.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#45635370)



Reply

Date: December 30th, 2022 3:19 PM
Author: hairless office generalized bond

Still on this path btw, in the New Year.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#45717722)



Reply

Date: January 16th, 2023 10:59 PM
Author: hairless office generalized bond



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#45799814)



Reply

Date: January 17th, 2023 2:08 AM
Author: self-centered university liquid oxygen

Any progress?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#45800296)



Reply

Date: February 28th, 2023 8:48 AM
Author: hairless office generalized bond

Indeed!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#45991719)



Reply

Date: February 27th, 2023 6:49 PM
Author: hairless office generalized bond

UPDATE: We have retained a Missouri shitlawyer who is skilled in collections. He’s taking the case on 25% contingency and thinks he can get the note recognized without an Ohio judgment. Seems like his whole practice is collections.

Are we getting screwed? If we get 75% of our money back I’ll be pretty damn pleased tbh, even if we could’ve got a bit more for an hourly rate.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#45989823)



Reply

Date: February 27th, 2023 6:54 PM
Author: Motley bonkers base rigpig

you got a good deal if he's right

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#45989841)



Reply

Date: February 27th, 2023 6:58 PM
Author: godawful puce ticket booth

how is this gonna be worth his time? 25% of garnished wages for 10 years?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#45989850)



Reply

Date: February 27th, 2023 10:33 PM
Author: hairless office generalized bond

No idea. Collections seems to be his whole practice so I assume he’s worked out the numbers. I mean once the money is coming in, it’s not more work after that right? My guess is he does a lot of these and it’s just a continuous income stream that gets slightly larger with each one.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#45990671)



Reply

Date: February 28th, 2023 10:02 AM
Author: hairless office generalized bond

Also we kind of teed it up by identifying her employer (and she does have a real job, full time W-2), I assume that makes it easier for him?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#45991895)



Reply

Date: March 5th, 2023 8:40 PM
Author: hairless office generalized bond



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#46014274)



Reply

Date: March 5th, 2023 11:26 PM
Author: self-centered university liquid oxygen

This is probably the best-case scenario. Presumably the shitlawyer thinks the original instrument complies with Missouri law for confession of judgment (or the shitlawyer knows which judge/venue wont care).

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#46014824)



Reply

Date: March 6th, 2023 12:33 AM
Author: hairless office generalized bond

180. It definitely doesn’t state the reason the debt was incurred, so I guess maybe it’s the latter…

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#46014957)



Reply

Date: June 9th, 2023 1:34 AM
Author: hairless office generalized bond

Prescient

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#46406489)



Reply

Date: March 11th, 2023 2:55 AM
Author: hairless office generalized bond

Court date set, a couple of months out. Lawyer says we won’t know until then whether the debtor has actually been served? Seems odd. I thought the idea was to make repeated attempts to be sure she gets served before the court date.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#46037307)



Reply

Date: March 11th, 2023 1:12 PM
Author: hairless office generalized bond



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#46038347)



Reply

Date: March 12th, 2023 11:21 PM
Author: hairless office generalized bond



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#46044125)



Reply

Date: March 13th, 2023 2:15 AM
Author: self-centered university liquid oxygen

Ah, the vagaries of practice in Missouri.

Service of the complaint on the debtor shouldn't matter for confession (the need for service would defeat its purpose, as does setting a court date out several months). The court should enter the confessed judgment then mail a copy of the judgment to the debtor (MO 511.070 appears consistent with normal confession practice).

I wonder if he filed it as breach of contract or something else (perhaps because the instrument didn't comply with Missouri's confession requirements, as noted).

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#46044461)



Reply

Date: March 13th, 2023 7:34 PM
Author: hairless office generalized bond

Hmm. TY for the insight.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#46047710)



Reply

Date: March 15th, 2023 11:21 PM
Author: hairless office generalized bond

I guess if he wants to do it that way and he’s doing it on contingency, doesn’t really matter? Might take more time but we’re not paying for it…

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#46057843)



Reply

Date: March 17th, 2023 2:03 AM
Author: self-centered university liquid oxygen

Keep us updated.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#46063064)



Reply

Date: June 4th, 2023 7:51 PM
Author: hairless office generalized bond

See below!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#46389836)



Reply

Date: June 4th, 2023 4:59 PM
Author: hairless office generalized bond

UPDATE: deadbeat ex-tenant appeared in court and signed a consent judgment (after first claiming the debt wasn’t valid—lawyer didn’t share the details of how that got dispelled but I bet it was lulzy). She agreed to pay $300/month against the debt for 6 months, after which the full remaining amount becomes due. Interest accruing in the meantime at 5%, not great but what we had written into the cognovit note (back when a typical rate was zero).

I think it’s very unlikely she will make more than the first payment on this, and no chance at all that she’ll be able to pay off the full amount at the end of the year, since it will still be more than $10k, but I guess this is the first step towards eventually garnishing? At the very least, should be an ironclad acknowledgment from Missouri’s perspective that the debt is valid.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#46389380)



Reply

Date: June 4th, 2023 8:25 PM
Author: self-centered university liquid oxygen

Sounds like progress, hopefully she remains employed. Local counsel is earning his fee.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#46389938)



Reply

Date: June 4th, 2023 11:01 PM
Author: hairless office generalized bond

180

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#46390446)



Reply

Date: June 9th, 2023 6:35 PM
Author: hairless office generalized bond

Update, received first payment check (minus the 25% contingency of course). Fingers crossed for another one next month?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#46409705)



Reply

Date: June 10th, 2023 4:17 PM
Author: self-centered university liquid oxygen

Keep those $225 checks rolling in!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#46412499)



Reply

Date: June 11th, 2023 1:45 AM
Author: hairless office generalized bond

Boom!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5251244&forum_id=2#46414009)