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Texas study: Actual cost of electric vehicle ownership is $18 per gallon
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Date: December 6th, 2023 9:40 AM Author: silver home https://www.thestreet.com/electric-vehicles/electric-vehicle-tesla-adoption-curve-cost#:~:text=Combined%2C%20the%20report%20found%20that,per%20equivalent%20gallon%20of%20gasoline
https://www.texaspolicy.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/2023-10-TrueCostofEVs-BennettIsaac.pdf |
Date: December 6th, 2023 9:43 AM Author: beta persian > An October report by the Texas Public Policy Foundation found that, after accounting for all of the hidden costs involved in owning an EV, that price becomes much more significant than an internal combustion engine vehicle.
The foundation is a conservative think tank that according to 2012 tax filings was funded predominantly by Exxon Mobil, Chevron and the Koch brothers.
Not a fan of electric cars, but lol at knobbing exxon |
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Date: December 6th, 2023 9:48 AM Author: Amethyst preventive strike old irish cottage this is an incredible quote:
Let’s assume that the average fuel economy of Tesla’s 2021 fleet is 113 MPG, the same as the average efficiency of the 300 mile range EVs noted above, and that Tesla’s 302,000 vehicles sold in the U.S in 2021 were 2% of the total vehicles sold in the U.S. in 2021 (EERE, 2022). Therefore, Tesla’s sales raised the fuel economy of the total fleet sold in 2021 by (113 MPG – 36 MPG) * 0.02 = 1.54 MPG. However, new vehicles are only a small portion of the total vehicles on the road. Given that there were 281 million registered vehicles in 2021 (EERE, n.d.-b) with an average on-road fuel economy of 24 MPG (EIA, 2022), the vehicles Tesla sold in 2021 raised the fuel economy of the entire U.S. fleet by only (113 MPG – 24 MPG) * (302,000 vehicles 281,000,000 vehicles) = 0.1 MPG
"Yeah but the secret ugly truth of this policy is that it can't affect things which have already happened, therefore it's a sham. Checkmate, electroactivists!" |
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Date: December 6th, 2023 11:03 AM Author: silver home Elon bitchbois done here (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5456081&forum_id=2#47139357) |
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Date: December 6th, 2023 12:19 PM Author: Bat-shit-crazy private investor whorehouse This is a dumb interpretation of the numbers. So basically the reason the impact was small is because barely any were bought. It isn't that they aren't more fuel efficient (113 MPG vs 36 MPG), it is that when you consider that the difference only impacted 2% of vehicles the overall impact was negligible.
And I'm not some crazy "WE ALL NEED TO GO ELECTRIC" type. |
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Date: December 6th, 2023 12:22 PM Author: doobsian bateful tanning salon (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5456081&forum_id=2#47139740) |
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Date: December 6th, 2023 11:48 AM Author: iridescent underhanded gaming laptop brethren lol. That study is basically incoherent. They should put these items in $/mile, not some gallon of gasoline equivalence.
My takeaway from reading the study is that, according to the numbers they provided, the “true” cost of a gallon of gas equivalent for an EV owner is $2.59, which seems extremely high. Using the values from my Tesla, in fuel terms, I’m able to drive each mile at ~1/4 the cost of a gas car, which comes out to $0.82 / gallon. Factor in maintenance and the economics get even better for EVs.
A better methodology goes something along the lines of 1). Sum the total costs of owning a car (maybe discounted, I can’t tell) over 15 years, 2). Divide that cost by the total number of miles to get $/mile, and then 3). Multiply by the MPG the car gets. But they are clearly juicing their numbers by attributing things that have absolutely nothing to do with EVs (like CAFE credits) as a “true cost” of an electric vehicle. They conveniently leave out an equivocal analysis for gas cars. And attributing things like utility upgrades and wear-and-year on roads is dubious because they are extremely speculative with wide error bands. I’m not familiar with the other costs, but I’m pretty suspicious of their validity, given how tenuous the other costs are.
There are some arguments to be made against EVs, namely they are best suited for people with garages who can charge at home, particularly if they can throw up some solar panels and drive for free. This study definitely misses the mark, though.
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Date: December 6th, 2023 11:53 AM Author: low-t puppy yeah, I think EV's are good solutions for some people but will never fully replace ICE's, and the wokies trying to force everyone into EV's are insane, but this article is BS. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5456081&forum_id=2#47139602) |
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Date: December 6th, 2023 11:57 AM Author: Disrespectful Ticket Booth "Factor in maintenance and the economics get even better for EVs."
This is the biggest piece of flame being run wrt to Teslas. There is no fucking way that is true. |
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Date: December 6th, 2023 12:03 PM Author: Amethyst preventive strike old irish cottage ...why? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5456081&forum_id=2#47139647) |
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Date: December 6th, 2023 12:21 PM Author: Disrespectful Ticket Booth basing this on my experiences with every single battery powered device and every device marketed as a "tech" or "smart" device I've ever used. batteries go to shit well before you think they will and all the cool neato tech features get forced in obsolescence well before you think they will as well.
they also still have brakes, tires, suspension, heating/cooling, other random electrical shit, etc that needs to be maintained. I guess you save $80 a year on oil changes so there's that. |
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Date: December 6th, 2023 12:24 PM Author: iridescent underhanded gaming laptop brethren The brakes on teslas outlast the vehicle. If you use the brakes, you’re doing it wrong. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5456081&forum_id=2#47139747) |
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Date: December 6th, 2023 12:25 PM Author: Disrespectful Ticket Booth has anyone ever even driven a tesla for more than 3 years? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5456081&forum_id=2#47139753) |
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Date: December 6th, 2023 12:40 PM Author: Vivacious domesticated resort There are still plenty of the original 2012 Models S on the road (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5456081&forum_id=2#47139842) |
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Date: December 6th, 2023 1:23 PM Author: Disrespectful Ticket Booth lol no. the venn diagram of the type of yuppie asshole who bought a 2012 and people who would keep a car for 10+ years has literally no overlap. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5456081&forum_id=2#47140094) |
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Date: December 6th, 2023 12:03 PM Author: Lime shaky son of senegal (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5456081&forum_id=2#47139651) |
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Date: December 6th, 2023 12:06 PM Author: Disrespectful Ticket Booth also lol at "throw up some solar panels and drive for free". like c'mon man. solar panels aren't free and prob will need to be replaced by the time you recoup the upfront cost. and that assumes you live in Arizona or some shit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5456081&forum_id=2#47139661) |
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Date: December 6th, 2023 12:22 PM Author: iridescent underhanded gaming laptop brethren I have no idea what scam solar companies people keep falling for, but I bought secondhand panels and recouped my costs within a few years. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5456081&forum_id=2#47139741) |
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Date: December 6th, 2023 11:56 AM Author: bright bearded mental disorder lol this is rednecks in enormous cowboy hats trying to do big boy math (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5456081&forum_id=2#47139618) |
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Date: December 6th, 2023 12:08 PM Author: Fuchsia rambunctious toilet seat EVs are a scam. Try going on a 12 hour road trip and then tell me they’re equivalent to ICE vehicles. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5456081&forum_id=2#47139670) |
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Date: December 6th, 2023 12:12 PM Author: Cracking crusty state foreskin but hybrids are cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5456081&forum_id=2#47139688) |
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Date: December 6th, 2023 12:15 PM Author: Beady-eyed Clear Lodge I prefer sitting at the supercharger with Bradley and Eric (Chung) than at the pump with Tyrevious and Juan, actually. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5456081&forum_id=2#47139705) |
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Date: December 6th, 2023 12:57 PM Author: house-broken school cafeteria liquid oxygen I'm very pro-EV, but long road trips are the one area where they don't compare favorably with ICE cars right now. I wouldn't want to do a long road trip in any EV other than a Tesla right now.
Having said that, a supercharger can charge a Tesla to around 80% in about 15-20 minutes. When I'm on a long road trip, usually we are stopped at least that long so that everyone can pee and get snacks. And Tesla is about to open their supercharger network to other automakers. So this issue is quickly becoming a non-issue.
More importantly, how often does the typical family take a long road trip? Maybe 2-3 times per year maximum? Is it worth paying higher fuel maintenance prices the other 363 days of the year? Even if you have to rent a car for long road trips, you will still most likely save money. |
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Date: December 6th, 2023 1:45 PM Author: cerebral crawly field Got stuck with an EV in Los Angeles. Was in Burbank, trying to find a charger for the car. I first went to a city charger. It literally said it was going to take 10+ hours to charge the car. I then found an "EVGo" fast charger. I had to drive all the way from Burbank to Calabasas to find this EVGo charger though and the car almost lost its charge on that 30+ minute drive. When I got there it took over 50 minutes to charge. It was beyond annoying. EVs may have a use case, but they should not be rental cars in Los Angeles. The make of this car was a Hyundai by the way. |
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Date: December 6th, 2023 1:51 PM Author: Fuchsia rambunctious toilet seat I wouldn’t do it in a Tesla either.
You’re assuming there are going to be available charging spots. And having to stop for 30 minutes every 250 miles is a huge pain in the ass on a long drive. |
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Date: December 6th, 2023 2:04 PM Author: low-t puppy There are lot of 'we did an EV road trip' articles and they all sound miserable. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5456081&forum_id=2#47140318) |
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Date: December 6th, 2023 2:56 PM Author: iridescent underhanded gaming laptop brethren I’ve done dozens of 8+ hour road trips in my Tesla and have never had a problem. You just plug it in, go into a nearby spot for a coffee, stretch my legs a little, and by the time you get your coffee, your car is charged. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5456081&forum_id=2#47140671) |
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Date: December 6th, 2023 12:15 PM Author: Mint Unhinged Nursing Home Organic Girlfriend how much are electric car battery replacements? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5456081&forum_id=2#47139703) |
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Date: December 6th, 2023 12:24 PM Author: Vivacious domesticated resort Bout the same as a gas car - https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/platinum/battery---accessories/batteries/31624da3221a/super-start-platinum-agm-battery-group-size-51r/ssbq/51rtplt/v/a/149433/automotive-car-2020-tesla-3?pos=0 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5456081&forum_id=2#47139748) |
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Date: December 6th, 2023 12:52 PM Author: house-broken school cafeteria liquid oxygen This is another idiotic anti-EV argument. The failure rate for EV batteries is actually significantly lower than the failure rate for the engine or transmission on an ICE car. And all current EV manufacturers warranty their batteries for longer than most people keep their cars anyway. And people act like the possibility of battery failure is an argument against EV's but happily drive ICE cars that have engine/transmission failures that are much more common than battery failures and almost as costly. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5456081&forum_id=2#47139915) |
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Date: December 6th, 2023 1:18 PM Author: Disrespectful Ticket Booth how is "failure" defined? the 200 mile battery that now gets 100 miles on a charge is considered a failure or just a pain in the ass that will lead to you buying another car sooner than you would have?
the real idiotic argument is pretending that engine/transmission failure is a real issue with cars these days. it's not 1996 any more. |
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Date: December 6th, 2023 12:48 PM Author: house-broken school cafeteria liquid oxygen This is one of the more idiotic studies I have seen in a while. The most obvious criticism is that it completely ignores the externalities associated with ICE cars. If you use the logic of this "study," ICE cars probably cost around $2,000 per gallon because the price of gasoline doesn't reflect additional deaths due to air pollution or the cost of moving Manhattan as it gets swallowed by the East River due to global warming. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5456081&forum_id=2#47139882) |
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Date: December 6th, 2023 1:19 PM Author: Disrespectful Ticket Booth 180 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5456081&forum_id=2#47140080) |
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Date: December 6th, 2023 12:49 PM Author: exhilarant chapel My state charges some annual ev tax that makes up for the taxes you would’ve paid via gas tax, eliminating that benefit too (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5456081&forum_id=2#47139891) |
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Date: December 6th, 2023 1:27 PM Author: low-t puppy (ChicagoCUCK) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5456081&forum_id=2#47140110) |
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Date: December 6th, 2023 1:41 PM Author: Metal hairraiser national security agency Texas seems like a bias actor for such a study (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5456081&forum_id=2#47140160) |
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Date: December 6th, 2023 2:20 PM Author: ultramarine zippy area Hmm, yes. $18/gallon seems like too much to pay for an electric car when milk can be had for less than $3/gallon. *nods sagely* (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5456081&forum_id=2#47140414) |
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Date: December 6th, 2023 3:09 PM Author: silver home Would you prefer the cost in British thermal units? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5456081&forum_id=2#47140758) |