Date: September 9th, 2025 2:04 PM Author: Fluffy obsidian messiness trailer park
i think it tracks that some additional expenses paid by companies are passed through to their customers. what i don’t understand is why this same effect does not apply with respect to corporate taxes.
Date: September 9th, 2025 8:11 PM Author: Irate indigo step-uncle's house yarmulke
dramatically increasing the costs of inputs and finished products forces companies in competitive markets to raise prices, or companies in less competitive markets to eat lower profit margins (fairly rare case).
Corporate taxes are generally applied on profits so have less of an inflationary impact (but still some and other negative knock on effects like decreased investment and wages and jobs creation).
Date: September 9th, 2025 8:41 PM Author: Fluffy obsidian messiness trailer park
absent price adjustments. the end result in either scenario is less value for stockholders. it just seems very odd that those stockholders would demand the customer cover the difference in one scenario and just shrug their shoulders at the other. but i guess you’re the expert!
Date: September 9th, 2025 8:50 PM Author: Irate indigo step-uncle's house yarmulke
Why would stockholders POV be the dispositive factor here?
Let's ask Grok.
Direct Impact on Prices
Tariffs act as a direct tax on imported goods, increasing their cost at the border. Importers typically pass this added expense onto consumers and businesses, leading to higher prices for a wide range of products, including consumer goods (like electronics and clothing) and intermediate inputs used in domestic production (like steel or components). This creates an immediate upward pressure on the overall price level. For example, estimates suggest that broad U.S. tariffs could raise personal consumption expenditures (PCE) prices by 1–1.5% in the short term, with effects concentrated on imported or import-dependent items. Across-the-board tariffs of 25% could boost prices for investment goods by about 9.5% and consumption goods by around 2.2%.
Corporate income taxes, in contrast, are levied on company profits after expenses (like wages, materials, and depreciation). They do not directly add to the cost of goods or services. While companies might try to offset higher taxes by raising prices, competition typically limits this ability—firms can't easily pass on the full burden without losing market share. Empirical studies show that increases in corporate tax rates have little to no effect on consumer or producer prices across sectors.
Broader Economic Effects
Tariffs reduce the supply of affordable imports, which can drive up prices by limiting competition and options for consumers and producers. They also distort trade, potentially leading to retaliation from other countries, supply chain disruptions, and higher costs for domestic substitutes. This supply-side constraint amplifies inflationary pressures, especially in a full-employment economy like the U.S. today. Tariffs are often described as regressive, hitting lower-income households harder as a share of their spending (e.g., on essentials like apparel, where prices could rise 17%).
Corporate taxes primarily affect after-tax profits, which impacts shareholders (often through lower dividends or stock values) and can influence investment decisions. However, they tend to reduce aggregate demand slightly (e.g., by curbing corporate spending), which is more likely to be neutral or even mildly disinflationary on prices. They don't create the same supply bottlenecks as tariffs.
Comparative Evidence
Economic models comparing revenue-equivalent policies (e.g., tariffs raising the same amount as hiking the corporate tax rate from 21% to 36%) find that tariffs cause roughly twice the economic harm, including stronger price increases, larger GDP reductions (up to 8%), and wage drops (up to 7%). In short, while both are taxes, tariffs function more like a sales tax on imports—directly inflating costs—whereas corporate income taxes target profits without the same pass-through to everyday prices.
This doesn't mean corporate taxes have zero inflationary risk (e.g., if they severely cut investment and slow growth long-term), but the consensus is that tariffs pose a clearer and more immediate threat to inflation.
Okay cool, so Grok thinks I'm right. Let's see what ChatGPT thinks.
Tariffs are generally more inflationary than corporate income taxes, especially in the short term. When a government imposes tariffs on imported goods, the immediate effect is an increase in the prices of those goods for consumers and businesses. Since many industries rely on imported components or finished products, the higher costs are often passed along the supply chain, leading to broad-based price increases. This directly contributes to inflation. In contrast, corporate income taxes reduce after-tax profits for companies but do not necessarily lead to immediate price increases. While firms may try to offset higher taxes by raising prices, competitive pressures and market dynamics often limit their ability to do so. Therefore, while both tariffs and corporate taxes can affect costs and investment decisions, tariffs tend to have a more direct and immediate inflationary impact.
Seems to line up precisely with what I said. I guess I can conclusively say that I'm right, and you're wrong. MAGA is composed almost entirely of know-nothings who have somehow convinced themselves they're geniuses.
Date: September 9th, 2025 8:58 PM Author: Irate indigo step-uncle's house yarmulke
You have to love presentation of a totally nonsensical argument based on shareholder desires (which are dispositive again….why) and then abandoning ship with an utterly vapid reply like the above.
Date: September 9th, 2025 9:53 PM Author: Irate indigo step-uncle's house yarmulke
Totally bud. Your snide remarks absolutely override my objectively accurate and well-supported positions described above. You’re very smart and not at all a mentally ill MAGA sycophant substituting Donald’s opinions and lies for your own thinking! 😉 😉
Date: September 10th, 2025 10:48 AM Author: gay talented church background story
Dude, I love riling up Obeezy. You should do it more often. He almost always undermines his own points because he thinks you win a debate by arguing semantics, and then he cedes the underlying meaning of the argument. He gets to walk away thinking he’s smart, while every person who reads his thread, even those who started out on his side, conclude the other side is correct.
Date: September 9th, 2025 3:26 PM Author: electric self-centered cumskin
according to the book of obeezy, american people and businesses keeping the money they earn is a form of government spending and the US government receiving money from foreigners is a tax on american people
Date: September 9th, 2025 8:51 PM Author: Irate indigo step-uncle's house yarmulke
Soooo cr. MAGA would never lie and say foreign companies pay the tariffs.
Oh wait, oopsy daisy.
TRUMP: "No, no. China pays. Other countries pay. It’s a beautiful thing."
“They have to pay tariffs … bring in trillions of dollars into our treasury from countries which never pay us 10 cents.”
“China is paying for them.”
"If you look at China, I took in hundreds of billions of dollars in my term … China has paid almost $700 billion in tariffs under me."
"For decades, they gave up to China. I’m the only one that … China has paid almost $700 billion in tariffs under me."
“These tariffs are paid for by the abusing country, NOT THE AMERICAN CONSUMER.”
“For many years, they have taken advantage of the United States … reciprocal tariffs take effect… billions of dollars … from countries that have taken advantage of the United States.”
"I am going to put tariffs on other countries coming into our country, and that has nothing to do with taxes to us. That is a tax on another country."
Date: September 9th, 2025 9:07 PM Author: gay talented church background story
Haha yeah. Look at that SEA of MAGA voters who care. Inflation is probably running at, what, 30% or higher now? Stock market is probably crumbling. I sure do miss Joe “jobs and infrastructure” Biden now; that guy was sharp as a tack and had his finger on the pulse of America. He told it like it is, unlike the current guy who leaves everyone wondering where he is and what he’s thinking
Date: September 9th, 2025 9:13 PM Author: Irate indigo step-uncle's house yarmulke
Weird, above you said only anti-MAGA people talk about this. Is Trump anti-MAGA, because he talks about it a lot.
I guess you don’t mind Donald dealmaker lying to you? Anything for daddy, right?
And yes Donny’s tariffs, which he lies and says are paid by foreign companies, are and will continue to increase inflation. The stock market is doing great! The wealthy get wealthier and have lower tax burdens while we implement a regressive tax that hurts poors. Oh what a populist movement!
Date: September 9th, 2025 11:52 PM Author: gay talented church background story
Odd case, man. Why would trump talk about it as much as you think he does if it’s actually hurting him? Those inflationary tariffs are going to crush American businesses any minute now. Just two more weeks, right?
Date: September 10th, 2025 9:42 AM Author: gay talented church background story
Why stop at the farmers? Let’s ask everybody. MAGA is absolutely DYING on this hill, after all.
> “As of September 3, RCP surveys placed Trump’s approval rating at 45.5%”
Whoa, dude, you’re right. Trump’s getting absolutely crushed on this. Let’s check to see how the Democrats are taking advantage.
> “positive views of the Democratic Party have now crumbled to a historic low, with only about one-third of the country seeing them in a good light, per Wall Street Journal polling”
So Trump is only maintaining a nearly 15% lead over generic democrats. He’s absolutely dying here.
> «“Weak,” “tepid,” “ineffective,” and “broken,” came up the most among Democrats and were used by Democrats to describe their party much more frequently than by Americans in general.»
Absolutely devastating that even the modal Democrat finds your most distinctive features to be undesirable
Let’s see what Americans think of tariffs specifically!
Two of the new administration’s signature accomplishments – the rollout of its tariff policies and the tax and spending law known as the “One Big Beautiful Bill” – garner considerably more disapproval than approval:
61% of Americans disapprove of Trump’s tariff policies, while 38% approve.
46% disapprove of the tax and spending law, while 32% approve (23% say they are unsure).
Date: September 10th, 2025 10:11 AM Author: gay talented church background story
Haha yeah “dying on this hill” and approval ratings are completely unrelated.
I couldn’t help but notice, though, that according to your links, Trump’s handling of the economy (ie the hill he and all the MAGAtards are absolutely DYING on) he holds at minimum a seven point advantage over Democrats. I liked this little gem too:
“By 17 points, voters disapproved of Trump’s handling of tariffs, while still trusting Republicans more on the issue to Democrats by 7 points.”
Date: September 10th, 2025 10:14 AM Author: Irate indigo step-uncle's house yarmulke
I mean, yeah, MAGAs defend to the death the idea that foreigners pay tariffs not Americans. This is of course accurate as shown above with Donny boy repeatedly lying on this topic. Let’s do an experiment - will you admit Donny is lying and that US companies pay the tariffs?
And yes tariffs are broadly unpopular as proven above, and Donny’s handling of the economy generally is also broadly unpopular as proven above.
Date: September 10th, 2025 10:44 AM Author: gay talented church background story
Dude, Trump and MAGA are absolutely DYING on this hill! You should honestly get out there and start knocking on doors and explaining to union aluminum workers and factory laborers that they need to start working low-wage retail jobs so we can have a Heckscher-Ohlin efficient economy. Make sure they know that “paying tariffs” is actually just about a short term monetary transaction and they can ignore long-term utility, national interests, and competitive outcomes.
Date: September 10th, 2025 8:17 PM Author: Irate indigo step-uncle's house yarmulke
Correct. MAGA Farm Animals are absolutely adamant that foreigners pay tariffs. You yourself are fighting for this position as we speak despite it being objectively false.
Date: September 10th, 2025 9:21 AM Author: Fluffy obsidian messiness trailer park
yep. the guy who was utterly baffled as to why shareholder value might be an important factor in corporate decisionmaking really showed off his intelligence itt.
Date: September 10th, 2025 9:26 AM Author: Irate indigo step-uncle's house yarmulke
Sorry maybe you missed it above - why would the desires of the owner of a given company be dispositive? Do they possess a magic wand they can wave and overrule market dynamics and how cost inputs impact those market dynamics?
Feel free to extrapolate and rebut the points made above! Spoiler alert: this MAGA Farm Animal won’t 😂
Date: September 10th, 2025 9:39 AM Author: Fluffy obsidian messiness trailer park
if anyone itt had argued that tariffs and corporate taxes have the exact same effects on end-user pricing and other market externalities then your argument might be a little more apt. the point is libs’ recent conniptions over corporate profitability seems a little disingenuous given they spent the last 40 years pretending business taxes were one weird cost-free trick.
Date: September 10th, 2025 9:52 AM Author: Irate indigo step-uncle's house yarmulke
Glad to see even MAGA Farm Animals can learn! I’m proud of you, and glad you finally figured out why tariffs are more inflationary than corporate taxes. You did a really good job today buddy!
Let’s pivot to your new assertion - that libs are heartbroken over corporate profits. First, yes us smart libs like to see businesses succeed. It helps all Americans thrive. Second, libs primary criticism of tariffs is that they result in higher prices for consumers which is a regressive tax that disproportionately impacts lower income and middle income families.
MAGAs like you strongly prefer lower taxes for the wealthy and increasing taxes on regular working folks. That’s your right and I respect your opinion, but I adamantly disagree.
Again I want to congratulate you on your breakthrough. You’re making great progress champ!
Date: September 10th, 2025 10:37 AM Author: Fluffy obsidian messiness trailer park
check your reading comp. i have not taken a position one way or another regarding the comparative inflationary effect of tariffs vs. corporate taxes. you’re the one who’s been spastically arguing about that issue by yourself itt.
Date: September 10th, 2025 10:40 AM Author: contagious deer antler lodge
lol I can just picture you gleefully and furiously typing away, noticeably sweaty and agitated, thinking you are doling out “sick burns” while your intellectual superiors dog walk you around here.
Date: October 2nd, 2025 3:57 PM Author: electric self-centered cumskin
you literally think americans keeping the money they earn is a form of government spending and foreign countries paying us for the privilege of selling goods is a form of taxation to americans. you are demented.