The most prestigious law school admissions discussion board in the world.
|
 |
 
|
Affordable housing doesn't mean more affordable middle class housing
Poast new message in this thread
Date: November 5th, 2025 1:08 PM Author: anal heaven son of senegal XO of all places shouldn't be confused by this (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49404161) |
 |
Date: November 5th, 2025 6:54 PM Author: Amber ceo juggernaut XO is predominantly former libs and nonwhites, so they easily fall prey to tricks like this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49405235) |
Date: November 5th, 2025 1:13 PM Author: citrine sticky stage cr it's going to mean more section 8 and more projects (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49404183) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 1:15 PM Author: anal heaven son of senegal Of course it will but posters think it means some poor 35 year old making 100k will be able to afford something (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49404186) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 1:19 PM Author: Multi-colored Nursing Home Rigor It actually means higher rents on normal apartments to pay for brand-new luxury apartments for people with minimum wage jobs. Not flame. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49404203) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 1:19 PM Author: citrine sticky stage jfc (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49404204) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 2:04 PM Author: Mind-boggling violent candlestick maker (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49404343) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 1:29 PM Author: Odious jap principal's office looks like the NYC mayor election didn’t go your way, but the jury’s still out on your prediction that Comey will be convicted (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49404232) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 8:26 PM Author: Glittery Resort Gunner WTF? I never put two and two together. Now I’m pissed. I’ll Be renting out my parent’s basement 4eva (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49405487) |
|
Date: November 6th, 2025 9:38 AM Author: Bistre swollen business firm (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49406741) |
|
Date: November 6th, 2025 12:07 PM Author: Titillating Ebony Macaca Maybe Section 8 needs to not be a thing anymore (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49407154) |
|
Date: November 6th, 2025 5:34 PM Author: Beady-eyed mauve ape people who are hurt (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49408195) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 1:17 PM Author: Multi-colored Nursing Home Rigor (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49404193) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 1:18 PM Author: Light hominid nibblets builders know every young persons dream of home ownership includes a beautifully appointed, wood frame, 580 sq foot "lifestyle space" with laminate floors, no soundproofing and spotty wifi. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49404197) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 1:53 PM Author: chrome hateful menage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49404316) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 1:20 PM Author: bronze half-breed so what? addressing housing scarcity at any class band is a hood thing. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49404205) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 1:22 PM Author: Multi-colored Nursing Home Rigor Housing supply goes down when you tax housing production. And the "affordable housing" is just a tax on housing production. When you reduce the revenues the developers make, some projects stop making enough to be worth building, so they build less. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49404212) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 1:28 PM Author: Dun stag film I work in this space on the legal side. Affordable housing set asides are not a problem in the slightest. Zoning and building codes and a slow bureaucratic process at every step of the process are the primarily problem. You have to be an established player to make any money if you're developing more than just a lot for a single-family home (and even then it's a fucking hassle that's often not worth it). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49404226) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 1:38 PM Author: Multi-colored Nursing Home Rigor LOL a lawyer, of course.
I work in this space on the economics side. This isn't true at all. Affordable housing set-asides reduce the developers' bidding power for land, meaning fewer parcels are bought for redevelopment.
Here's a paper that shows just how drastic the effect is. The incusionary zoning effect was so large that it outweighed the relaxation of the zoning code.
https://www.huduser.gov/portal/periodicals/cityscape/vol25num2/ch11.pdf |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 2:19 PM Author: bronze half-breed how does "affordable housing" as a broad concept imply taxing housing, which can only serve to make it more expensive? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49404402) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 2:22 PM Author: Mind-boggling violent candlestick maker Because "affordable housing" is not a broad concept involving making housing more affordable for everyone. Rather, it's a very specific legal definition of low-income requirements, making only a certain subset of poormos eligible for it.
Example: https://www.nyc.gov/site/hpd/services-and-information/area-median-income.page
When politicians and bureaucrats talk about "affordable housing", this latter specific definition is what they actually mean, although they often misleadingly imply the former idea. |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 2:25 PM Author: bronze half-breed oh i thought this was about affordable housing for the poor as a general concept (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49404430) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 1:23 PM Author: Dun stag film cr. adding supply, no matter the price point (luxury housing or ghetto housing) helps. It's a good thing and a "hood thing" too. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49404215) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 1:24 PM Author: Multi-colored Nursing Home Rigor true, but only if the subsidy doesn't come from the market-rate apartments. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49404219) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 1:32 PM Author: Burgundy razzle lay new version The most affordable metros are places where it's very easy to build new housing. Places like Florida and Texas and AZ and NV keep cranking out new subdivisions after subdivisions. They are also among the more prone to boom and bust cycles compared to the coastal markets, where new housing is difficult to build, limiting new entries to the market.
The real question becomes not so much the supply of housing but why is housing so difficult to build in NYC or California or metro Boston or DC. Some can point to the lack of available new lands (in direct comparison to the sunbelt) but a major factor is indisputably regulation. It's why affordable housing is so expensive to build and often more expensive than free market middle class housing in less expensive parts of the country. And in this case I wish NYC best of luck. These overeducated Gen Zs are in for a rude shock if they think anything is going to change in the next four or eight years. They are certainly not first in the queue for the handful of new affordable housing units that may crop up under Mamdani or any progressive Democrats. So, yes, any new supply is a good thing, but it's not going to shift the needle in NYC. |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 1:33 PM Author: vibrant goal in life black woman its hard to build because theres no space lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49404248) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 1:36 PM Author: Soul-stirring hell yes nyc is a rare market where regulation makes sense because there is no space to allocate (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49404256) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 1:39 PM Author: vibrant goal in life black woman even in places like dc or boston you need enormous amounts of space for even massive buildings of studio apartments because of cars and parking lots and shit. you can do underground garages but thats expensive as hell for both developers and renters and quite frankly dumb. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49404272) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 1:45 PM Author: Multi-colored Nursing Home Rigor You can just eliminate parking requirements, especially in NYC. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49404292) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 1:44 PM Author: Multi-colored Nursing Home Rigor That is an insane statement. There are many parking lots and underutilized lots all over the city. Most of the city doesn't look like Midtown.
A PhD student at MIT calculated all the underbuilt lots in the city that are prime for redevelopment if regulations would allow. https://vrollet.github.io/files/city_structure.pdf |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 1:52 PM Author: Dun stag film That's not true. There's plenty of space out there. I do agree that transportation infrastructure can at times be an issue. But even the most dense place in the US (NYC Metro) has a lot of room for increased density. Egregious examples in NY include suburbs that are 30 mins away by train that have single-family houses next to the train station. The system is set up to block or slow down development, especially dense, multi-family development. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49404314) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 1:54 PM Author: Burgundy razzle lay new version Ah. Advocating the wholesale demolition of Bronxville for Hong Kong style highrises? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49404319) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 2:00 PM Author: Multi-colored Nursing Home Rigor This is a block from a subway stop in Queens.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/XbsUMLyyz52PYrKSA |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 2:00 PM Author: Mahogany appetizing depressive codepig you are talking out of your asshole yet again. overdevelopment ruins towns/schools/communities/ (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49404327) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 2:01 PM Author: Multi-colored Nursing Home Rigor Yes, everyone knows Fifth Avenue and Park Avenue were ruined when the single-family brownstones were replaced by 15-story co-ops. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49404330) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 2:30 PM Author: frozen sanctuary mad-dog skullcap We’re going to bring the beautiful brownstones BACK, and then deport you and your communist NIGGER mayor back to “Uganda” or “Ulaanbatar” or wherever the hell you freaks came from. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49404441) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 4:26 PM Author: Mahogany appetizing depressive codepig no one gives a shit about faggot nyc. i'm talking about America (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49404762) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 1:35 PM Author: anal heaven son of senegal I don't agree with that (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49404255) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 1:38 PM Author: Mint at-the-ready kitty stead i don't agree and neither do most people (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49404266) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 7:14 PM Author: Amber ceo juggernaut If you build section 8 housing in an area, then normal white people won't live near it. Section 8 housing actually takes away places that can be developed for normal white people. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49405299) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 7:16 PM Author: Mint at-the-ready kitty stead (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49405302) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 1:29 PM Author: vibrant goal in life black woman its bullshit. every family who gets gibs means another family boxed out of housing. no one wants to subsidize mcdonalds workers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49404229) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 1:33 PM Author: Soul-stirring hell selling these hideous multimillion dollar empty jewelboxes to chinese has been a death knell. hard to imagine a developer even interested in something for middle class in mhf.
even the 20/80 rule (which requires 20% to go to public space or real poors) wont do anything for the 100 remaining normal people in that city |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 2:07 PM Author: Mind-boggling violent candlestick maker Adding more section 8 housing everywhere makes every place more ghetto and makes it harder and harder for normal people to afford any kind of non-ghetto living environment (which become scarcer and scarcer). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49404356) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 2:08 PM Author: Mint at-the-ready kitty stead (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49404363) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 4:31 PM Author: Concupiscible flushed pisswyrm (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49404768) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 4:46 PM Author: supple cuckoldry Twist if you commit to building 300k starter homes or condos in a really nice area they immediately get flipped for 5, then bought by PE, reno'd, flipped for 8.5-9 and in 5 years it's a million. Anything remotely nice anywhere no matter what you value it at is going for a million sooner than later just because there are that many Millennials with money who would like to live there. All middle class housing is luxury housing if it's in the right area. You actually have to build something shitty enough to keep the rent down. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49404807) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 5:39 PM Author: Mint at-the-ready kitty stead Correct but the problem is even worse than that (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49404966) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 5:40 PM Author: supple cuckoldry Low IQ comment thanks for nothing (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49404971) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 5:43 PM Author: Mint at-the-ready kitty stead You can read my tweet below for my longer thoughts I'm not typing it all out again (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49404981) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 6:29 PM Author: supple cuckoldry I read it. Too many vagueries. You are truly a midwit who thinks they're smart. Smart and delve into specifics and launch cohesive arguments that become impossible to ignore. You ramble meekly and without compelling evidence. Reminds me of Pensive but you're not as dumb as Pensive. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49405184) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 6:34 PM Author: Mint at-the-ready kitty stead Any intelligent person can extrapolate the details from the information given in that post
If you're not smart or informed enough to do that, the post isn't for you |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 6:42 PM Author: supple cuckoldry I know way more about this than you do. You're just a bad writer and your thoughts are boring and not worth anyone's time. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49405213) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 6:53 PM Author: Mint at-the-ready kitty stead Really doubt it man I work in this industry and from your comments in this thread it seems like you actually agree with me anyway (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49405233) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 6:59 PM Author: supple cuckoldry I don't care one way or another about the argument I'm just sick to death of bad writing and people with poor communication skills. I'm at the end of my proverbial rope. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49405253) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 5:21 PM Author: anal heaven son of senegal That's my point and that's what you're going to get with legislated affordable housing, not affordable housing for people with decent jobs (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49404896) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 5:37 PM Author: supple cuckoldry No housing for people with decent jobs remains affordable. All large homes with great location are worth millions. Stop pretending. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49404947) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 5:40 PM Author: anal heaven son of senegal You're just going to get more section 8 if that's what you want, great (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49404969) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 5:20 PM Author: Mint at-the-ready kitty stead https://x.com/GoySuperstar/status/1986193605091049924 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49404893) |
|
Date: November 6th, 2025 4:29 PM Author: Know-it-all messiness library What is the problem that you think needs to be solved? Everyone that is not retarded and poor is doing fine. We are never going back to the brief blip in time when we were building out an entire continent and true proles could easily afford to buy a ok single family home with a yard. Proles will continue to live in shitty apartments and falling down houses. People who want a big house in a prime location are gonna need to find a way to get paid - same as 99% of human experience. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49408016) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 6:41 PM Author: Flickering splenetic digit ratio "affordable housing" is code for making your life worse if you've studied and worked hard your whole life with strong future time orientation (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49405209) |
|
Date: November 6th, 2025 12:31 PM Author: turquoise senate (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49407268) |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 8:08 PM Author: grizzly love of her life The idea that we should be building "low income housing" is idiotic.
Builders are just supposed to, what? Install fake wood paneling in the living rooms and add popcorn ceilings?
There' definitely an argument for loosening up zoning laws, but any politician who advocates for building lower income housing or requiring set asides should be bounced out of office tomorrow.
An obvious solution to alleviate this pressure would be to tax the hell out of any property that isn't a primary home. But for some reason politicians will only push for a small discount on this.
Like Mamdani's family pretty clearly has a bunch of homes - but he wants to point to builders and politicians as the problem rather than the fact that they have 3 houses that sit empty 330 days a year. |
|
Date: November 5th, 2025 8:22 PM Author: supple cuckoldry tcr
something like 60% of 3 bedroom houses in the US are owned by boomers with an empty nest. and they're adding, not subtracting how much real estate they have. |
|
Date: November 6th, 2025 11:54 AM Author: Bistre swollen business firm but even when builders were like fine we’ll do mixed income housing but with separate entrances the libs went apeshit and insisted on one entrance for all, which obviously drove away the wealthy buyers
taxing empty residential real estate can probably be done, but “taxing the hell” out of non primary homes just means less supply of quality housing on the market and/or makes it so that only corporations own investment properties for rent |
|
Date: November 6th, 2025 11:55 AM Author: supple cuckoldry your bootlicking knows no end
it's like you were created in a lab to be the ultimate cuck |
|
Date: November 6th, 2025 11:58 AM Author: Bistre swollen business firm I’m the one that wants average people to be able to make money off real estate
the cucks are the ones who scream bloody murder unless Blackrock is allowed to own everything |
|
Date: November 6th, 2025 12:06 PM Author: supple cuckoldry oh yeah, using peoples shelters as assets, that really benefits, you know, regular people. the one thing people actually need to thrive, let's commodify it as much as possible! that'll be great for Joe the Plumber. The average age first time home buyer is 37. Just starting out in life, you're 37! Go settle down, have a family!
fuck outta here |
|
Date: November 6th, 2025 12:08 PM Author: Bistre swollen business firm lol @ your momdani view of economics (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49407160) |
|
Date: November 6th, 2025 12:11 PM Author: supple cuckoldry yeah the free market is good for everyone. when Chinese kids pay full sticker for uni that drives up the cost for Americans, that's just the invisible hand of free market economics at play for everyone. when Saudis buy real estate in Midtown it's free market. This stuff is all grand. It's great for Americans.
You're the least America First person on this entire website and we have DBG here. You're a coward and a traitor of the highest order. Amazing. |
|
Date: November 6th, 2025 12:42 PM Author: Bistre swollen business firm lol, I’m all for kicking out every single illegal and limiting legal immigration to a trickle. that will lower prices
I’m not a socialist fag like you who wants to make arbitrary rules about how much individuals can own. one car per person too? one bicycle?
dipshit loser |
|
Date: November 6th, 2025 12:12 PM Author: Flickering splenetic digit ratio home values are home prices. if buying and holding housing to realize appreciation is a good investment, then housing must become less affordable over time (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49407171) |
|
Date: November 6th, 2025 12:13 PM Author: supple cuckoldry (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49407177) |
|
Date: November 6th, 2025 12:15 PM Author: Mint at-the-ready kitty stead (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49407184) |
|
Date: November 6th, 2025 12:44 PM Author: Bistre swollen business firm yeah you’re a regular Adam Smith 🙄
tell me, who should be the ones to provide proper housing, both for rent and for resale? or do you plan to give every high school grad an affordable starter home for free? |
|
Date: November 6th, 2025 12:46 PM Author: supple cuckoldry They should work til 37 before they are able to afford a home. Fair is fair. No grandkids for Mitch. Just do dogmom and travel shrew. Eat the bugs goy. 60% of three bedrooms houses in the US are owned by Boomers with an empty nest. It's 180. God bless the system. Right is right, fair is fair. Vive le roi. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49407324) |
|
Date: November 6th, 2025 5:23 PM Author: Flickering splenetic digit ratio great point, moron. either housing appreciates forever or it's free. depreciating consumer goods don't exist and never have. fucking idiot. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49408162) |
|
Date: November 6th, 2025 5:41 PM Author: supple cuckoldry He was clear that he thinks houses are a tool to make money. He's never wavered on that. What he can't explain is how this money making scheme tilts in the favor of regular people and not Blackrock who can borrow near infinite money from the government (which is why the Wall Street Journal clamors incessantly about the return of low interest rates so they can snap everything worth buying up for free). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49408209) |
|
Date: November 6th, 2025 12:00 PM Author: hyperventilating opaque antidepressant drug god i fucking hate lawyers you all need to die (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49407126) |
|
Date: November 6th, 2025 12:00 PM Author: Mint at-the-ready kitty stead 🫡 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49407127) |
|
Date: November 6th, 2025 12:06 PM Author: hyperventilating opaque antidepressant drug it doesnt matter if everyone itt is right just the fact that a bunch of completely fucking useless faggots making hundreds of thousands of dollars sit around thinking about how unjust society is to them and these are the exact people who should've been doing something productive kill them all jfc (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49407147) |
|
Date: November 6th, 2025 5:27 PM Author: Mint at-the-ready kitty stead You kinda sound like a Redditor though ngl (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5793860&forum_id=2Vannesa#49408169) |